Strategic Planning Committee, 5 May 2026

00:08:34Good morning, everybody, and welcome to the Strategic Planning Committee on the 5th of May. Starting off, I am your chairman today, Councillor Mike Howe, and we have a health and safety first. There is no fire alarm drill anticipated today. In the event of a fire alarm sounding, please leave the building through the nearest fire exit and by following the green running man signs above the doors and make your way to the rear of the car park.

00:09:03If anyone needs assistance leaving the building in the event of an emergency evacuation, please let us know. The organiser of the meeting will tell you when it is safe to return. Please make sure all phones are either muted or switched off. Committee, I've had to take the chair today as our lovely chairman has decided he's doing other things today. And obviously to replace me, I'd like to nominate Jess Bailey.

00:09:31Committee, can you agree that? Would you agree that, please? Unanimous. Thank you very much, committee. And that, right. I am your chair, Councillor Mike Howe, not Olive, and to my right is Vice-Chair, our clerk made a slight mistake, but she's brilliant, so I'm not going to hold her to anything, is Councillor Jess Bailey. Supporting officers present are Ed Freeman, Assistant Director, Planning Strategy, Damian Hunter, Planning Solicitor, and Wendy Harris, Democratic Services Officer.

00:10:09Can I remind everyone present that this meeting is recorded for publication on the Council's website. Please can members and officers making a contribution to the meeting use a microphone or your comments will not be recorded. We will now start the meeting by doing a roll call of committee members and declarations of interest. wendy thank you chair I'll start with yourself Councillor Howe yes present and no declarations thank you Councillor Jess bailey vice chair present um and I'd like it noted please I'm a Devon county Councillor But it's not a uh an interest to be it's just for information please any particular items all the items thank you thank you Councillor Blakey present and no declarations Councillor Faithfull Councillor Fernley present no declarations thank you Councillor Fitzgerald.

00:11:19Present, and I have received lobbying in respect of Agenda Item 7 and the Reg 19 consultation, specifically with regards to EXMO20.

00:11:33Thank you. Councillor Hayward. Present, and declaration on Agenda Item 7, similar to Councillor Bailey, and affects NRI as a Devon County Councillor. expense to division thank you thank you Councillor Jung present and uh I've received um lobbying uh emails uh at the same as uh Councillor Fitzgerald item seven thank you Councillor Ledger present and similar to Councillor Jung Councillor Fitzgerald thank you Councillor Levine present debate no declarations declarations thank you Councillor Parr present no declarations thank you um can I pass the declarations to the non-committee members if you could raise your hands if you do have any did I not call you brian I'm so sorry Councillor Councillor Brian bailey I'm present and I've been uh lobbied on excess 20 and various other things regarding excellent thank you apologies again brian um so non-committee members any declarations no Councillor Peter faithful has just uh arrived so I'll just wait for him to settle in and then I'll ask for his declarations back to you chair in the meantime thank you very much um right agenda item one minutes of the previous meeting um our minutes have been

00:13:53Queried and as such um although we I think we have an agreed position it's not been written up for signing in general though otherwise with one query and I will I can't remember if all of you have been copied into the one query or not now no um where is it we will leave the minutes for the next meeting although as I say yeah yeah we will leave the

00:14:44Minutes to the next meeting because they'll be sorted out and printed for everybody to see which makes it fairer for everybody and in that case council faith are you ready nothing to declare thank you very much um wendy do we have apologies yes we yes we do um Councillor Todd oliv Councillor Ben ingham and Councillor Ollie davy thank you very much and then on to public speaking can I call our first speaker um nigel [member of the public] please Good morning. We keep on being told that we have been listened to or not been ignored.

00:15:41Yet more than four years ago and over 60 SPC meetings and public discussions, where are we? For EXMO20, unfortunately, not very far, as the issues that existed at the start have still not been resolved. We were told to have our say, and we did. Twice in Reg 19, and what happened? Nothing. We are now being told to have our say at the planning inspector hearings. We will then be told to have our say at the planning application stage, no doubt.

00:16:14When does it stop? I do not have the time to list everything again, but the 400-metre buffer zone continues to be handled inconsistently and with conflicting views. The evidence from statutory and non-statutory consultations and your own sustainability appraisal, which underpin and justify the Local Plan soundness, clearly state a greater limit to development in the EXMO20 buffer zone than that what is stated in the draft Local Plan.

00:16:46Do you intend to correct the plan or maintain the contradiction by continuing to ignore the evidence and the comments made in the consultations? and how will you justify these decisions to the inspector access to and from EXMO20 continues to be uncertain despite numerous requests for clarification a February 2026 DCC freedom of information request identifies that DCC provided EDDC with forecast vehicle flows on roads around the Pebblebed Heaths with a daily increase of over two and a half thousand vehicles to be seen on the B3179 of which over 2,200 would be due to EXMO20 with the assumption that EXMO20 would have a primary access from the B3179 and that all but local traffic from EXMO20 would be along the B3179. So how do these statements fit in with the ambiguous ones in the draft Local Plan of bulk via B3179 and modest via Southern Wood? What exactly does all but local traffic mean? Could all site traffic be allowed via Southern Wood as long as it's classed as local use. Again, ambiguous. The inconsistencies I have mentioned here, along with others that

00:18:14Have been well documented but ignored since September 2024, could and should have all been resolved. You now have an additional seven months to do something about it. So I ask again for you to seriously reconsider EXMO20 and please use this additional time wisely. Thanks for your time.

00:18:36Thank you very much. Nicola Wright, please. Sorry, can you press the right-hand button in front of you?

00:18:50Good morning, Chair and Councillors. I'd like to speak about the proposed development of land at Hale Farm. Currently, as you sweep down the hill, Honiton lies before you, part of the valley being an area of national outstanding beauty, where we regularly see deer, heron and sheep and cattle graze. the A35 truck road is already very busy a main artery to Dorchester and beyond and to the ports from the top of the hill two very sharp bends are before you and it's not until you traverse the second bend that you can see the road layout the listed copper castle and junction with Pine Park Road and the bus stop on your right and the listed toll gates and the proposed site entrance I understand from information gleaned from the East Devon District Council Planning Office that road widening, speed limits etc would alleviate any safety or traffic issues. I guess if you threw enough money at these problems they could be overcome. However what you cannot overcome is the impact on the environment, destroying a beautiful landscape which can never be recovered.

00:19:58The site itself has a spring line across it and slopes sharply down into the stream below which in turn runs into the river Otter which has dangerously high bacteria levels. Sections of the river have been classified by the Environment Agency as having poor ecological status, placing in the bottom 20% nationally. Figures show that phosphate levels in the river are around 50% above safe limits, doubling downstream of major sewage works.

00:20:27Their findings have raised concern about infrastructure capacity, particularly where new housing is planned. An article in last week's Herald Express states that councillors have unanimously blocked new housing developments until sewage concerns are solved and whether existing infrastructure can cope with further development. It states formally that the council should continue to oppose any new development until the sewage system is proven to be capable. I implore East Devon Council to consider very carefully any development of this site and the impact it will have on Honiton, its residents and its wildlife.

00:21:03Please, let's not spoil it for future generations. Our national framework states clearly that the countryside must be preserved, but we understand the East Devon District Council Planning Department has a remit to enable development, but at what cost? Its job description is to build houses. the hill coming down into Honiton was Honiton's original gateway and was referred to as the town in the countryside I'd like to end with the words of Daniel D Foe who in 1724 wrote in his account of Honiton Hill and I quote the best and pleasantest part of the whole county coming down the hill to the entrance of Honiton the view of the county is the most beautiful landscape I do not remember the like in one place in England. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. [member of the public] next, please. Some people in this room, despite your political affiliations, must be thanking

00:22:29The government for throwing this proposed plan a lifeline. To quote the report, due to ongoing work streams, the plan isn't ready. But it was never going to be ready for the June deadline, even though we were assured time and time again all is on track. We see the extra time as both a lifeline and a threat. The lifeline is the opportunity at long last to write the essential documents and to allow the public to comment from an informed basis on the plan that will be submitted for inspection. The dark side, however, is that it allows opportunistic development to be progressed. It cannot be a coincidence that many residents who live around the EXMO20 have been approached by a developer with some pretty drawings and an invitation to a webinar where they will present their ideas of EXMO20. Interestingly, their letter is dated 24th of April. We were advised on the afternoon of the 20th of April of the delay. You can draw whatever conclusions you like from that. I would like this morning to focus your attention to the gunning principles, which are four legal standards endorsed by

00:23:31The Supreme Court, determining whether a public consultation is fair and lawful. Principle 4 from the Local Government Association's website tells us conscientious consideration must be given to the consultation before a decision is made. Decision makers, which is you, should be able to provide evidence that they took consultation responses into account. I ask you whether you have. In summary, this council has an obligation to provide a detailed, auditable trail of analysis and consideration of all consultations. There were as you know, in total, nearly 2,800 comments on EXMO20, raising significant legal, environmental and deliverability concerns, which were then reduced by AI to a series of generic bullet points. By the admission of officers, no human has engaged with these responses, let alone reviewed and considered them. In fact, there is no evidence whatsoever of meaningful engagement with the material arguments raised or who raised them and what consideration has been given to them. None of the reports has detailed whether any of the requested changes have been accepted or rejected. However, more by luck than judgment, there is still time to get it right. Your

00:24:45Officers propose a summer or autumn submission date. Don't fall into that trap. You have six months. Take the time available and this time make sure it's right. Get the basics right. Today's report tells us there are eight key pieces of work not complete, including absolute fundamentals like the HRA. This work needs to be finished and presented. Only then can the plan be consulted on to satisfy your gunning principles' obligations. So, councillors, please, insist on consultation three in the interest of your legal duty, your constituents, our environment, our future, and your own conscience.

00:25:25Bang. Thank you very much. [member of the public]. In December 2023, there was a critical legal shift when Section 85 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 was updated. It states, in exercising and performing any functions in relation to, or so to its effect, land in an area of outstanding natural beauty in England, a relevant authority must seek to further the purpose of conserving and enhancing the natural beauty of the national landscape.

00:26:10Relevant authorities must take all reasonable steps to explore how the natural beauty can be conserved and enhanced. It's an active duty, not a passive one. The duty goes beyond mitigation, like-for-like measures, and replacement. They must be able to demonstrate actively conserving and enhancing the natural beauty of the national landscape, and this should be open to scrutiny. Your policy on national landscape uses very similar wording and states specifically that major developments in national landscape will only be permitted in exceptional circumstances and where it can be demonstrated to be in the public interest.

00:26:48As an example, I'll reference Sidmouth 34A and 34B. This land is wholly in the national landscape and a site I'm familiar with. The Council unanimously rejected Sid 34B to reduce harm to the landscape. Later, the Council enlarged the proposed site at the request of the developer now called SID 34, saying a less dense development would cause less visible harm. No mention was ever made of enhancing or conserving.

00:27:16The emerging plan now includes a major development site, which against the own council policy would make it unacceptable, and there's no evidence of giving allowable exceptional circumstances. The overall district housing target can't be considered to be an exceptional circumstance. After the first consultation, acknowledging the error, a simple clause was added to your document, asking a potential developer to enhance the landscape incredibly by building many houses on it.

00:27:45As it's a major development, it's still violating your policy. The delay in submission of the Emerging Local Plan is an opportunity to correct this. The Council should reject the progress proposal that no changes should be made after 3,000-plus heartfelt comments by the residents that they represent. I urge the Council to re-evaluate and remove SID 34 and potentially those other sites in the national landscape. Then, if it makes a substantial change to the overall housing target, sites outside the national landscape should be modified or other sort.

00:28:20It may be difficult, but not impossible. then the emerging plan could be legally compliant and the council could demonstrate their adherence to the leveling up and regeneration act of 2023 in acting to enhance and conserve the national landscape and importantly can respect the consultation progress finally the East Devon management plan for the national landscape says through nature-based solutions that act across society East Devon national landscape will become a wilder greener more resilient landscape where where nature thrives along people.

00:28:54That doesn't sound like a strategy that includes building on it. Thank you.

00:28:59Thank you very much. Next, [member of the public], please. Firstly, regarding the 3rd of March meeting where the video recording had parts deleted, I thank your solicitor, Mrs. Wellman, for her professionalism recognising errors made and apologising where she felt necessary. This is ongoing. Mrs. Wellman is undertaking a review of decisions made prior from a legal point of view. This is what you should be doing with the Local Plan now.

00:29:34[Passage not reproduced here. It contains allegations or strong criticism of named people or the council, made at the meeting. We don't repeat allegations; you can hear the passage in the council's own recording by playing it from this point.]

00:30:40Ready but you now have six seven months to submit a sound and legally compliant plan you must reconsider the housing numbers you have enormous year-on-year drops in the standard method calculations. Lowest data figures since 2003, yet you voted to keep the high numbers last autumn and may vote to do the same again. The plan went into Reg 19 with an agreed 10% headroom. It's now at over 16 and by adoption will likely be 20. You're trying to use a transitional 80% allowance, but then adding massive headroom. Why? I hear many say that the high numbers are from central government and if you remove a site you need to find another one not true you are voluntarily choosing to decimate more of East Evans countryside than Westminster requires why aren't you telling your constituents that the inspectors reviewed Team Bridges plan and said 20% headroom for five years then 5% for the entire remainder of the plan so use this time mitigation hierarchy assessments use a housing oversupply to remove sites identified that process needs to be demonstrated

00:31:49Anyway and a plan reliant on mitigation will not be looked on favorably at examination remember avoidance over mitigation question does this local planning authority East Devon district council as a legally defined competent authority under the conservation of habitats and species regulations 2017 believe it is fulfilling its duty as the competent authority EXMO20 is a site that has a mountain of legislation and evidence against it, and its inclusion undermines the viability of the whole plan.

00:32:19Remove it and see how the mitigation and the plan improves. Councillors, suggest this today. Thank you.

00:32:28Thank you very much. Margaret Evans, please. Good morning, everyone. I'd like to talk about the land at Hale Close Farm. The proposed building site, known as HONEY 18, adjoins an area of outstanding natural beauty with views across to Dumpton Hill. Really spectacular. At the strategic planning meeting held on the 29th of October 25, a last-minute proposal was submitted to build a housing estate comprising 136 houses right across this piece of land.

00:33:05As it was a last-minute submission, I don't think anyone at the Town Council had had time to review it. Consequently, there was little opposition to adding this beautiful greenfield site with its natural springs to the 25-year building plan. It appears no more consideration than that was given to it. At the same meeting, a proposal to build houses on farmland adjacent to Heathfield to the west of Tesco's was rejected on the basis that it would ruin the view of Honiton when approaching from Sigmund's direction.

00:33:36Why was the approach to Honiton important for the Heathfield site and not for Honey 18 site, when clearly the view of Honiton approaching from Axminster would be ruined? This suggests an inconsistent approach by the planning committee. A recent water cycle study requested by East Devon District Council found that sewerage treatment systems are already under severe strain, with Honiton operating at around 40% capacity deficit relative to demand.

00:34:05The report concluded that no additional housing should be approved in effective catchments until sewage treatment capacity and phosphate removal are addressed. Councillor Charlotte Fitzgerald and I quote said in East Devon is committed to resisting development where we don't have the sewage treatment capacity and water cycle study will help put a barrier against this development with water treatment when water treatment can't take it can the planning committee please confirm that they are adhering to the conclusions set out in the study they commissioned and will not be approving additional housing plans until sewage situation is resolved. The excessive volume of traffic on Kings Road was recognised over 20 years ago when proposals were drawn up to create a bypass from the A303 near Moncton to the A35 to short of Offwell. The completion of this housing estate with some 200 cars and service vehicles will significantly increase the volume of traffic on a road which was considered excessive 20 years ago. Additionally there are natural springs which crisscross the fields making them wholly unsuitable to build on. Building in spring line poses significant risks to structural integrity

00:35:20Safety and long-term maintenance of buildings. The consequences arise from constant water pressure soil saturation and potential erosion beneath the structures. It feels like this building plan is being railroaded through the planning system without due consideration given to environmental issues, infrastructure needs or the landscape.

00:35:44Thank you. Thank you very much. Liz Lees, please. I am here representing a group of Sidford residents. We are working together to oppose Site 6A and any possible future allocation of 6B. We are seriously concerned about the Green Wedge policy and national landscape policy being overridden in order for development of this site after being rejected during earlier consultation. The proposed allocation falls within East Devon National Landscape.

00:36:30NPPF states great weight must be given to conserving and enhancing the landscape and scenic beauty of these areas. We are extremely concerned that once this site is accepted for development, This then sets precedent for others such as 6B to follow, with a further development of 238 houses. The irreversible harm this will have on our beautiful countryside will permanently degrade the character of this statutory protected area, which provides significant value to the local economy through tourism and well-being.

00:37:04Site 6a is designated as a green wedge development here will be the start of the erosion of the physical and visual gap between Sidford and Sidbury leading to urban sprawl allowing development on this site undermines the integrity of the green wedge designation across the entire district making it impossible for the council to defend other sensitive gaps in the future edd eddc's own strategy is to concentrate growth on sustainable purpose-built communities rather than bolting on unsustainable developments to existing villages in sensitive locations national policy states a brownfield first approach the council has not yet exhausted all urban regeneration opportunities or grey belt sites before resorting to the destruction of high value national landscapes national landscapes it will have a detrimental impact to local heritage and loss of biodiversity this site is in close proximity to sydbury castle a schedule monument and brook farm a grade 2 listed long house We believe these sites are unsound and not legally compliant and request they are removed from the final Local Plan to protect the unique character of this area for future generations.

00:38:30Thank you for listening. Thank you very much. And that is it.

00:38:39Thank you ever so much, public speakers. Excellent timekeeping for all of you, and very well done to all the speakers. Mr Freeman, would you like to reply, please? Excuse me.

00:38:52Thank you, Chair. Yeah, obviously I'm not going to respond to every individual point in turn, but some key points to pull out from the public speaking. I think the first thing to say is obviously we understand there are still lots of concerns in relation to a number of allocations in the plan, and those concerns have been expressed consistently through a number of the consultations. We have heard those comments, and they have been considered throughout the process.

00:39:16I think the report highlights over 60 meetings of this meeting, the different consultations the feedback reports that the committee has heard and considered so there is that audit trail we have considered all of the comments ultimately at this stage of production clearly there's still some outstanding objections to the plan and those to my mind need to be considered through the examination process of the plan the time for amending the plan consulting amending has has happened we've been through that process but there's been numerous consultations numerous reports back to the committee numerous considerations of those concerns amendments to the plans made further consultation we've been through that process regulation 19 stage should be the final publication version of the plan that's where we are so the examination is the way forward for those concerns that are still outstanding so I'm not recommending that members revisit the site allocations in the plan um you will see when we come to the main item obviously there's the feedback report most of those comments have been made in previous

00:40:24Consultations and were considered through the previous feedback reports and previous meetings of the committee um as I say we're at the publication stage the plan cannot be materially changed at this stage without a whole new consultation exercise um while we have a lot more time than we envisaged uh it's not intended to use that time to do anything other than resolve the outstanding issues that are highlighted in my report which we'll come on to but primarily the Habitat Regulations issues turning to the Habitat Regulations issues themselves I think there were a couple of questions about that just to respond to those clearly we are working through the Habitat Regulations issues with our consultants in our capacity as competent authority to ensure that the plan is legally compliant at the point of submission which is the requirement so that's that's what we're currently doing um as I said there's not an intention to carry out further consultation at this stage we are entitled to update and amend evidence documents in the run up to submission and and that's all we're in terms of comments around national landscapes

00:41:32I would direct the speakers to the topic paper on our website headed major developments in national landscapes that sets out our approach and how we've considered development in national landscapes through the production of the plan and includes assessment of individual sites and allocations against their impact on the national landscape and the requirement to further the purposes of national landscapes so that paper that topic paper is on our website and urge those concerned on those issues to read and consider that document um turning to further comments to note uh some of the speakers around uh Honiton site honey 18 raising concerns about sewage capacity which have been highlighted through our water cycle study I would stress that there are measures in the plan to ensure that developments in those areas where there is limited or not at the present time sewage capacity to ensure that those developments don't come forward until that capacity is available um obviously the plan is for 15 years up to 2042 so during that time scale we're working with southwest water to in the intention of additional capacity coming forward

00:42:43And then those sites coming forward once that capacity is available um I think that's it uh so there's probably more detailed points I haven't gone into um but I think that's it for the moment thank you chair thank you very much right in that case moving on to agenda item five matters of urgency there are none agenda item six confidential exempt items there are none present isn't he mr. Freeman believes he's answered most of them we are coming up to obviously item 7 which is the Local Plan part and as such let's see what the discussion is there I honestly cannot say this minute in time no because it would take some work to do that but as I say that's the mr. Freeman says if you have any unanswered questions at the end of today's debate please email mr. Freeman but nevertheless as far as I was aware I had answered the question if it hasn't answered sufficiently then by all means contact me yes and I said that we were doing that yeah thank you um right in that case we'll move

00:44:24On to item seven East Devon Local Plan progress update report pages 14 to 139 short report mr Freeman please uh yes thank you chairs members will be aware I had been intending to bring the plan uh through to you today for agreement to submit the plan for examination um however due to ongoing work in particular around the Habitat Regulations assessment work which has already been mentioned which is a legal compliance issue we're not in a position to submit the plan as per the adopted local development scheme however we're slightly saved in terms of timescales by clarification of the timescales for submission of plans under the current plan making system which means that we now actually have until the end of this calendar year to submit the plan and don't now need to submit the plan by I think it was the 12th of June that we had been working to so that's brought us some more time to work through these issues around the Habitat Regulations assessment work in particular and we're currently working with our consultants to try and resolve

00:45:29Those issues so that's that's where we are in terms of time scales I'm not in a position yet to update the local development scheme because we need to have further meetings with our consultants particularly in relation to Habitat Regulations work before we can do that so hence you don't have an updated local development scheme in front of you today we will bring that to a future meeting when we have greater clarity about the time scales moving forwards what we do have today is the feedback report on the second stage of regulation 19 consultation I think at the previous meeting, I brought a sort of high-level summary of that consultation.

00:46:08You've now got attached to this report, the full feedback report, and in paragraph three, you'll see there's some summaries of the key findings through that report. As I mentioned earlier, most of the consultation responses, I think, are basically on-site allocations and reflect comments previously received in earlier stages of consultation. The intention of this consultation had been primarily to seek views on the amendments to the plan since that consultation, of which there are some, but the majority are about specific site allocations and raising the concerns, many of which you've heard already, in relation to EXMO20 and HONI 18.

00:46:49Just a couple of quick amendments to that feedback report. There are two typos within the report. The AI declaration on page 11 includes an incorrect date. It should read February to April 2026. And the header in the appendix still refers to stage one consultation rather than stage two. So apologies for those typos. The intention would be to update those prior to publication on our website. The other thing to mention, actually, just coming back to one of the public speakers, is just while we've used AI to summarize the consultation responses received, it doesn't mean that members of the team haven't read through those responses and considered them.

00:47:32It's not an entire AI process. We're declaring that we are using AI to help us to summarise into this report format fundamentally. So just to clarify that point of the record. The report then goes on to talk about ongoing evidence work. I'm not going to go into a huge amount of detail. I think a lot of this has been covered in previous reports and discussions, but we're still working with the highway authorities over transport work around West End developments.

00:48:01We're confident that we're close to agreement in terms of the planned development within this planned period, but those discussions, particularly in terms of Malcombe, obviously extend beyond that into how we accommodate the full 10,000 homes at Malcombe, which is an ongoing discussion and will take time to resolve. in terms of viability testing work at Marlcombe we now have a draft viability report from the consultants and working that through and discussing that through with the various stakeholders playing pitch strategy and outlaw sports strategy is to be reported through shortly again I've seen a draft of that and commented on that um you may be aware members may well be aware that that's coming through leisure delivery forum and then ultimately to cabinet as a wider corporate strategy but it does feed into the Local Plan as well uh I mentioned air quality impacts the Pebblebed Heath I've got a meeting with the consultant team next week to work through that and understand where we are in terms of that uh river axe nutrient mitigation strategy again uh in the final stages of completion of the strategy document uh water cycle study as

00:49:09I've mentioned in the report there's a meeting with the consultant team and environment agency later this week to work that through so we are making progress on all of those areas I think it's the HRA work that's the real issue at the moment in terms of that legal compliance issue so hopefully we provide more of an update shortly on that once I've met with the consultant team next week so a new local development scheme will follow setting out a new timetable when we've got some more further clarity on that in the meantime members are asked to consider the feedback report that's before you note the contents of the report and acknowledge the later submission date for submission of the plan for examination and as they note the consultation feedback report that's Thank you, Chair.

00:50:02Thank you very much. Outside committee, any questions? Councillor Collins, did you want to speak on this one?

00:50:12Thank you, Chair. I was hoping to speak in the public part, but you obviously had lots of speakers, and I don't want to take public speaking slots away from them. I watched a TV programme yesterday, which is quite rare for me to watch any television and it was escaped to the country and they featured Devon. They featured four properties in Devon. It was a retired doctor and his wife wanting somewhere to retire to in the country with nature and everything in Devon and it sort have struck me that that is the reason you know lots and lots of people looking around this room most of you weren't born in Devon you've come from other areas you're taking houses away from local people people I went to school with cannot afford to buy houses in East Devon they just cannot the program yesterday said that the houses in Devon were 50 000 pounds more than the national average so one doesn't stand a chance so we do need the right houses in the right places for local people and I feel this plan in general is going to

00:51:47Just exclude local people because they're going to be expensive houses that people can't afford because wages are so low. We have very few large employers in East Devon to create a good wage structure and going back to this to what you're talking about honey 18 that definitely should be taken out because the public have not had a chance to have proper consultation that been considered because you're saying now that regulation 19 the comments won't be used to alter the plan in any way. So how on earth is, where's democracy coming into that one? It's certainly not. Honneth and Town Council have never been consulted on E18.

00:52:38No, I'm not happy with it at all. Thank you, Chair. Thank you very much, Mr Collins. In that case, no other public speakers? Over to committee. Councillor Faithfull first, please.

00:53:00Thank you, Chair. Well, it's a bit going back to the beginning of this agenda. Can we please go back to one meeting a month? Because sitting on for two months with nothing to do and then having 332 pages thrown at you and 10 days to read it through with all sorts of other things going on, I haven't had time to properly work through these documents. I have worked through as much as I could, but I'm struggling to cope with this you know if we had first agendas small enough that we can manage monthly and also can we keep track of what's going on because all of a sudden we're told now we've got six months so we were told before to go going down to once every two months that um we didn't have much to do and yet we've got stacks of work to do between now even now between now and December.

00:54:02So can that be considered, please? A few questions I have got is when will the viability work be available? Who are all the parties reference the road network at Marlcombe? And what am I saying? Yeah, that's one meeting. that's enough for now.

00:54:39Thank you very much. Councillor Hayward? Thank you, Chair. I've got a couple of points, if I may. The first is just to come back to something Councillor Collins said and an accusation that all us incomers have stolen all the houses. Effectively, each house that's bought by an incomer has been sold by someone here. They've got a choice. You don't want incomers to come in. Don't sell your house. Similarly, each piece of field and greenfield that's been sold, farmland, has been sold. I know Councillor Collins cares passionately for farmland and for food security, but each bit of farmland that's built on has been sold by a farmer. If they don't want it built on, don't sell it. If there's no land sold, no one can buy it. Therefore, no one can build on it. That's a simple calculation. Most people living here live in a house that originally was a field. Unless you live in one of the historic centres, centre of Axminster, which has been a development since 300 BC, you're living in a house that's in a field. Once upon

00:55:49A time, other people had a view across their field where your house is. That's just the nature development East Devon has I think seven percent of our land area is developed seven percent if you look at the map of East Devon questions still are we on questions chair thank you um we're so seven percent of East Devon's built when I came from slough you can tell from my accent 35 to 39 percent of slough is developed um six percent of surrey is golf courses it's all about land use and yes I hear from people here you know the people of maxminster don't want another 1200 houses slammed onto the side of our um of our little town but that's what we're going to get we're not in the aomb we don't have the protection of a national landscape and we've had speakers here from collerton who don't want house housing estate in collerton from sydbury from honnerton from Exmouth no one wants development where they live and this committee has been ruminating and discussing for years on how to develop a plan that accords with

00:56:57Governmental numbers. Previous government, this new government, and potentially, who knows, a future government. So that's just my observation. And I had to come back on that because it's a necessity of housing. And all the people in Axminster who live in squalid, landlord-deprived housing would love a house in the countryside that's why people flock here um but that aside the one thing I'd like to do is if I may is each time we come here we hear from speakers who speak passionately and they've done their research and they throw at us and they throw at the chair and they throw at our officers another piece of legislation in in sometimes accusatory tones by email and in person.

00:57:42And what I never actually see is a direct rebuttal. Mr Freeman, you answer as best you can for the questions that are thrown at you. But then we don't see. We've had three key accusations today about why this plan is invalid, shouldn't be made. I think what I would like to see is each time we have these accusations made, the next time this committee meets is a summary of the accusation This was made. This is our rebuttal. This is the legal view of the council.

00:58:13We have accorded with X. We have done Y in full compliance with the law. Otherwise, every meeting is started with a series of accusations. And this committee is trying. Now, thank you. Thank you for pulling. I'm not saying you're correct. I'm just saying you're making accusations that I haven't seen a, thank you, a quantified rebuttal to. But in order for us to make decisions, we need absolute evidence and absolute assurance that everything is being done right.

00:58:44Ultimately, the planning inspector will throw out any plan that's not compliant. And I cannot conceive why our officers would put forward a plan that isn't compliant. Why would they? It's a pointless exercise. So I have faith in officers doing the right thing. But every time I hear an accusation about air quality, land quality, water quality, this, that, I never actually see the direct answer. I hear a statement, oh, we've answered it, but I'd like to see it written down myself, but to members, so we can see what's being said.

00:59:17And then each stage of the process, we know all the boxes have been ticked, the I's have been dotted, the T's have been crossed, we move to the next stage.

00:59:25Thank you, Chair. Councillor Jones. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ed, for the report. It's good news that we've got some months further to study the plan and get all our ducks in line before it goes to the inspector. One question is, it was arranged for a full council to be made on the 2nd of June is that going to be necessary now? I don't believe it is, which is good because I'm going to be going on holiday so that's that in response to some of the accusations, my ancestors actually do come from East Devon I've got a churchyard in Yorkham with a lot of my relations so we moved away I've moved back throughout history people move around and we have to comply with how people move and how people live there's been a lot of information some of it misinformation in the press and social media on all important housing numbers for East Devon I wonder if we could either this meeting or in the future as my my colleague from AXM was suggesting to have some more clarity on the

01:01:14Affordability gap the changes made to the housing numbers since the Local Plan started because one minute we have one number we've got then we get government give another number etc etc we need to know if we don't get a Local Plan what the numbers are going to be and if we do have a Local Plan what the numbers are going to be what is the new Local Plan definitive housing target that's now That's vitally important, and we're being told that we're ignoring the housing numbers, we're not reassessing them.

01:01:56We need to get absolutely clear on how we're doing that. Do we have to assist in neighbouring council shortfalls? That's another accusation that we're being accused of, that we are going to be working with neighbouring councils. And there's another question that keeps coming up is that why do we carry on with a Local Plan with the unitary happening? People imagine that when we go into unitary, all these plans are scrapped.

01:02:33That's not the case. There's so many accusations and suggestions, and if you go on AI, they're incorrect in giving some of these answers. So we need to have definitive answers to all these accusations and suggestions that are being made.

01:02:54Thank you. Thank you very much. Some of them have been answered many times before, but we'll come back to that. Councillor Levine. Let me speak.

01:03:12Thank you, Jay. Actually, what I wanted to say was already said by Councillor Hayward and Councillor Jung. so I have not much to say except to tell my colleague, Councillor, oh, I'm fucking sitting behind me so I can't remember his name. I live in a small village up in the Blackdowns. I'm an incomer and if it weren't for incomers in the Blackdowns, all the villages would be dead for the simple reason that we haven't got any amenities here, we haven't got any facilities. It's rural Devon. The number of times that I've complained to Ed Freeman about facilities and amenities, we've got to travel six miles to a surgery. My next door neighbor, who happens to have a 16-year-old child, has to walk for 20 minutes along a main road to get the bus to school. So it is not But East Devon is a mixture of urban areas and rural areas.

01:04:16In urban areas, families can live, but not in rural Devon. But what I really would like to ask, and it's a question, when we're talking about SP01, there's a question about the race, concerns were raised about classifications of individuals, of settlements. And I can imagine that most of them was because developers are unhappy that they cannot increase the number of houses in some of our service villages.

01:04:51Have you got any reason for changing the classifications of our villages in rural East Devon?

01:05:01Thank you very much. Councillor Bailey, Brian Bailey. Thank you, Chair. I've listened with interest and I'm going to ask a basic question from what I can understand the houses are in East Devon are not selling like hotcakes like they used to the building in general has slowed down and I take many people's point that the local people still can't afford a house in East Devon because they're so expensive So I can't for the life of me understand why we're still pursuing these large numbers, where there's been some question of whether we have to abide by the government's numbers or whether we can try and amend them and get them lower.

01:05:53But if I understand Mr. Freeman correctly, because of the 19 engagement that's been taking place, the regulation, we can't alter that, which seems very strange to me, that we're still pursuing these large numbers when they're not selling and the prices are going to be astronomical. Take Exxon 20, for example, I see there's 16% affordable homes, 30% rented accommodation in some form, but the majority of them are going to be £400,000 plus is going to be the cost of those houses.

01:06:33So it doesn't comply. We have surveys on the demand for local people and what the local people need. And these surveys are being ignored because in Exxon, for example, our main problem is single occupancy housing, flats, that sort of thing, for single people. That's not been addressed at all in any of the Exxon 20. So I'm at a loss to understand why we appear to be going in the wrong direction.

01:07:00Thank you, Chair. Thank you very much. And Councillor Fitzgerald, please. um thank you uh so assuming we're still on questions because I've got a few things that are not for debate um my questions are around um the the responses to the consultation um a couple of the statutory consultees have um put in their concerns one being the environment agency and I and I know that um ed has said that that that he's meeting with them next week to talk about the water cycle study um but it says that um the the ea has has one of its responses was that deficiencies in the water cycle study are affecting the plan's soundness um which has caused a quite a lot of concern to me because you know this is a piece of work that we spent a lot of time working on and we're heavily reliant on it um preventing us from having to grant planning permission for sites which are going to be detrimental to our watercourses effectively so just that's a question around are we to what extent we're we are satisfied that we are going

01:08:20To be able to get to a position where the a the ea recognizes the plan soundness on the basis of the strength of the water cycle study and then another consult statutory consultee that came back um the nhs Devon icb stating that primary care infrastructure needs are not properly reflected in the idp or allocations that's on pages 55 and 56 uh calling for including explicit health infrastructure planning phasing obligations for some of our bigger sites is that something that we're going to be able to work towards and complete uh within the the time available to us to get this thing complete so that's one question and then I suppose also this is a question but it's regarding there are some responses from from developers and landowners querying some of our policies on things like accessible and adaptable housing and housing for older people.

01:09:37I had to laugh when I saw that they were suggesting that there wasn't an evidence base for there being a need for housing for older people in East Devon. But our policy sort of states that where commercially viable is used as a sort of, you know, within commas, I'm a little bit worried that that policy is not strong enough to withstand, you know, a developer coming along and saying, oh, it's not commercially viable for us to build appropriate housing for older people, and whether or not we should think about strengthening that based on the mood musics that was coming through from these responses, which was that it looks like developers are going to push back on that policy in particular. Thank you.

01:10:31Mr. Ledger. It's a really quick one, actually. Following on from what Councillor Jung said, so our five-year affordability ratio has gone from 9.88 last year to 9.52 in the latest figures. Apologies. so with regard to our affordability ratio it's uh last year it was up at 9.88 it's now gone down to 9.52 what material difference does that make to our total local housing need hopefully that answers [member of the public] question that he posted earlier as well mr Freeman are you ready uh thank you chair um yes so if we go back through in in in order so if I go back to council faithfuls uh comments um I'm not sure what to say about the frequency of the meetings I think that's for discussion outside of of the meeting really um I assume when you refer to viability work you refer to the Marlcombe viability work because the wider Local Plan viability work is published on our website and was part of the Reg 19 consultation um we have further work on going on malcombe uh which is currently a draft stage which we're reviewing as officers um we've

01:12:04Already had a workshop with um the developers and landowners that that affects at malcombe so that's an ongoing sort of consultation engagement with with them but once once the report is uh the consultants work is complete we'll obviously add that to the website um uh sorry I was just reading my own writing I think you asked about the parties involved in the road network at mile I mean obviously it's ourselves um Devon county councillors the local highway authority and highways england as the strategic road network highway authority so those are the the three main parties they've all got different consultant teams working for us as well so it's a mixture of representatives directly from those bodies and their consultants um but those those are the parties involved um in terms of Councillor Hayward's comments um yes I mean certainly if it's members wish I can bring a report that um you know rebuts the various comments that have been made by public speakers in relation to the plan um I think it's all information that is is

01:13:16Out there and in the various reports that I've walked through the various meetings but I appreciate it it amounts to thousands of pages of reports and documents and and things so if if members want a handy sort of uh response as faqs as it were in in a report we can look to bring that to the next meeting if that's members wish I see nods but might want to consider a resolution to that effect if that's um members wish um turning to Councillor Jung's comments uh no I don't think the full council meeting on the second of june will be needed uh we will need for council meeting to consider Local Plan but later in the year um charity on the affordability gap um I mean as council ledger said uh the affordability gap is is reducing uh which is reducing our overall housing requirement figure I think we've actually if you go back far enough come from over 10 um homes being more than 10 times average salaries to now around the nine marks is gradually coming down but it could go back up again and this is this is part of the

01:14:24Challenge um is that that's updated every year um and so our housing requirements and the standard method changes on an annual basis as a result of that um so last year it came down and I think it reduced the housing requirement off the top of my head from about 18 homes a year it has a very small impact but when you calculate that out over the planned period you know 18 homes a year over 15 years it starts to become more significant um and it's the accumulation of those things that having come down each year over the last two or three years I think it is um and so yes that has had an impact um so the changes to the housing numbers overall I mean there's a variety issues there's the affordable affordability ratio as I've said there's need for headroom within the plan and that's a subjective judgment as to how much headroom we want to have in the plan we're building more headroom than we'd originally envisaged but of course let's say

01:15:26The affordability ratio could go the wrong way and that could impact on that there's also the risk of challenge at the examination we know through the consultations that a number of developers are raising the point that we're taking the plan through 80 percent of the now the new standard method figure and are challenging our approach to do that transitional arrangements allow us to do that but they are making a case around you know the acute housing needs in the district mean that we shouldn't be doing that that we should be planning for more um so there's an issue of challenge there and it's helpful to obviously have more headroom in the plan to rebut those sorts of um challenges uh the other issue uh is in terms of the plan period itself is that we need to have 15 years housing and supply at the point of adoption so obviously the later adoption of the plan is um the the less years there'll be in the plan so the delays in terms of the time scale

01:16:22Have an impact on that but also we understand there are a lot of authorities looking to submit a plan by the end of this calendar year so the planning inspector is going to be very busy next year which could mean that the examination is delayed or takes longer so it could be that by the time of adoption we don't actually have 15 years of the plan left to run to 2042 at which point if we've got more than that headroom is giving us flex I suppose is what I'm saying in terms of that calculation as well so there are good reasons so to leave the housing numbers position as it is um I think these points were made in a previous report last september but again it's buried away in lots of agendas so again if members wish I can bring forward a fair report that draws all of that out and explains the narrative around those housing numbers in a bit more detail and puts actual numbers to it I don't have the numbers in in my my head to just reel

01:17:21Them off um so I just really do we need to assist neighboring councils uh no we don't have to there obviously was the duty to cooperate albeit it was a duty to cooperate rather than the duty to agree so it didn't compel us to agree to take on neighboring authorities but in any event the duty to cooperate no longer technically exists in its own form we still need to work with neighboring authorities but we are not proposing as things stand to to meet any of the housing need of our neighbouring authorities there is no agreement in place to do so the only ones that have asked in any way is Torbay but they've not put forward any real evidence to support that ask so we have rebutted that ask as things stand so no our housing numbers are purely about meeting the needs in East Devon why carry on with the Local Plan with local government reorganisation coming obviously through local government reorganisation there will be a new geography to plan to and plan will be produced on that that geography but um in the meantime and I I suspect it's not going to

01:18:30Be the number one priority for a new unitary organization on the day of its inception to start making a plan for that area uh and in any event it's going to take a couple of years to produce that plan in the meantime we don't have a five-year housing land supply we don't have an up-to-date Local Plan and that's impacting on decision making uh so there is an acute need for us to have an up-to-date Local Plan I'm hoping by getting this plan through and hopefully adopted as quickly as possible we can leave East Devon in the best position possible from a planning perspective of having a clear strategy for how growth and development is accommodated in the coming years that will tide us over until any new unitary authority produces a plan for the wider geography of the area whatever that looks like in the future so I think they're very good reasons to continue with with plan making in the meantime uh Councillor Levine referred to the hierarchy of settlements um to my mind the hierarchy of settlements is is fundamental which

01:19:31Is is why we took that report through and agreed the hierarchy right back at the start of the plan making process which you'll see if you look at I think it's appendix one in the report that that gives the chronology of it um I don't I would strongly recommend against trying to revisit it now it's it's like pulling it as a string on a cardigan and the whole thing will start to fall apart because it's fundamental to the plan and the strategy uh that's been brought forward then where we've considered sites how we've considered those sites I don't think you can go back and unpick that um I think they're a mixture of comments actually coming through in terms of the hierarchy of settlements some as you say from developers who want to promote sites in settlements where we're not currently considering growth as a result of our assessment of those settlements through the hierarchy there's also some comments from those settlements that are not allocated for development within that hierarchy where they feel that they want to see growth and

01:20:30Development take place and we have heard from them in previous meetings and I have pointed out that they can still bring that forward but through a neighbourhood plan um and that is is the route for them to do that um if they can demonstrate why it's sustainable and appropriate in that location to do that through the neighbourhood plan um so hopefully that satisfies those communities and obviously we will look to rebut um those that argue against the settlement hierarchy but I'm confident we have a clear methodology and approach there which is sound um Councillor Brian bailey uh was asking why we're pursuing such high large housing numbers when houses not selling um I I can't really comment on the state of the housing market but obviously the the plan is through to 2042 so the housing market is inevitably going to ebb and flow during that time ultimately our housing numbers are dictated by the standard method that's set by government um and and we have to work to those those numbers that's based on a whole number

01:21:31Of factors including demographics change and growth in the population in the area um and things like that um so the housing market isn't a direct factor in that um but what we have got in the plan is obviously provisions for delivering affordable housing so obviously to deliver affordable housing you have to deliver more housing in total because most of our affordable housing comes through as a proportion of the total numbers of house homes coming through our policies that require um at the moment 25 or 50 of those homes to be affordable so in order to increase the number of affordable homes you need to increase the total number of homes uh coming forward and we've also got policies in the plan that uh look to control the types of housing ensure that they're meeting local needs and meeting the requirements of the native population so those are provisions within the plan so again I think this is another good reason why we need to pursue the plan is to ensure that we're delivering not just a number of homes that we need but the types of housing that we

01:22:36Need in the future because those needs change over time the current plan is out of date and not meeting the needs that we know we we now have um thank you ed michael I understand what you're saying but my concern is that we are if we're building an area of outstanding natural beauty or national land our policy is for 50 percent affordable but we're not complying with that policy are we we're considerably down we're at 30 percent 25 percent so why are why are we not enforcing that policy thank you so so currently we have two different levels of affordable housing requirement in the district depending on where in the district you are it's 25 generally um in uh the lower value areas the urban areas um 50 outside of those areas um we don't tend to get many applications coming forward in the 50 area to ever need to to secure it to be honest um because those are by definition national landscape and areas where development is not encouraged um but all of these policies are subject to viability requirements which is is a government

01:23:57Requirement um so if there are cases where those affordable housing requirements are not being met at the decision making stage for individual applications then it can only be for viability issues in which case they will have gone through a whole assessment process of assessing the viability of the scheme and understanding that before we would have deviated from those requirements and we would only have deviated from those requirements on the sound evidence base and in accordance with national policy it's not something we would have done for any other reason because obviously we want to deliver as much affordable housing as possible um so moving on to Councillor Fitzgerald's comments um so yes you you're right the environment agency have some concerns with the water cycle study um did bring a report I think to the previous meeting uh acknowledged those comments and I need to understand more what their concerns are I have a meeting I think it's thursday this week with them and with our consultant team to tease those out and understand from from what I've seen I don't think they actually go to the soundness of the plan

01:25:01Um you have to the water cycle study is one thing and it's it's evidence for the Local Plan but it's also fulfilling a wider purpose than just that. So deficiencies in the water cycle study don't necessarily mean that the Local Plan is unsound. That's something I need to tease out with them. But my understanding of their concerns are more related to the wider issues with the water cycle study, but they disagree.

01:25:27We don't have to agree with the Environment Agency fundamentally. Again, they can come to the examination and be heard by the inspectorate, But it would be nice to reach a position where we're in agreement with the Environment Agency on the water cycle study, and that's what we're trying to work towards in the time available. And the meeting I've got later this week is the start of those conversations to try and reach that point.

01:25:51I think our consultant team have already been through the Environment Agency's comments and acknowledged there are at least some things in there that they accept they need to address. So I would envisage there being some updates to the water cycle study, and hopefully we can address the Environment Agency's concerns. and reach a position by the point of submission where everybody's happy with that similarly with with the primary care and health care needs I have I don't mean it's in the diary yet but been trying to set up a meeting with health care providers about those concerns they were involved in the production of the infrastructure delivery plan that accompanies the plan so we should have captured all of their needs in terms of health care infrastructure and included those in those assessments um acknowledge there do seem to be some concerns about that again as I say we don't necessarily have to agree with them just because they're concerned from a soundness perspective doesn't necessarily mean we are or the inspector would be examination but

01:26:52Again want to work with them and try and reach agreement if we can um get to a point where everybody signed up to a statement of common ground that could go in with the plan that shows how we've worked together and address those issues I should say I say again with the environment agency there's been discussions all along so um this is um trying to um address the remaining concerns but it's been an ongoing conversation with all of these parties um in terms of accessible and adaptable homes uh we have certainly bolstered the requirements obviously in this plan as members will be aware and that has raised concerns about viability from the developers. As said in response to Councillor Brian Bowley's comments we are tied by national policy in terms of having to consider viability issues and the viability of the plan is an issue for the examination as well so that will all come out through that work. I don't think we can avoid saying it's subject to it being commercially viable because it is

01:27:52By definition as a result of the government requirements um what will come into play I think if that is the case in the future if the plan is found sound and we get to applications on individual sites where this is an issue would be balancing our requirements about accessible and adaptable homes with other requirements you know might we have to trade off a small proportion of affordable housing to secure accessible and adaptable homes those are the kinds of conversations we would need to have but fundamentally our evidence suggests that it is viable so inevitably developers challenge that um that's usual with with a plan like this um and we'll have to see how that plays out through the examination process um I think that brings me finally to council ledger's comments which I did touch on about affordability ratio um so yes it does make a difference to the overall standard method calculation not a big one but it's it's cumulative impact as that comes down but as it's come down it could just as easily go back up again

01:28:54So those changes could easily be reversed so it's it's a bit dangerous to rely on those and then reduce the number of sites we're allocating in the plan because of that when by the time we get to examination or by the time the plan is adopted the affordability ratio we could have had another two years worth of figures so the changes we've seen our last couple of years could easily be reversed um so it's it's dangerous to to jump on that and make changes I think it's better to leave things as they are and accept we're building in more headroom but we may well need that through the examination process for the plans we found out Councillor Is jill sorry me again I I do want to bring up one thing related to EXMO20 which received an absolutely enormous amount of responses in this in this consultation and I I know that you you were particularly keen to concentrate on certain areas not necessarily specific site allocations in in the consultate in the second consultation but one area which came up which I'm particularly interested in and because the air

01:30:08Quality report on the regarding the Pebblebed Heaths is still outstanding and was mentioned in the response to the consultation was mentioned in public speaking today which is the significant amount uplift in vehicle journeys that are going to be going across Pebblebed Heaths resulting from EXMO20 and is that something which um officers consider might be um a sort of a red line as it were that that is going to make it really difficult for for that site to to be valid um if it can't you know if we can't pass this air quality standards. Thank you.

01:31:09Thank you. Right, I'll try and say that quicker. So it's regarding the air quality report and specifically because there were a very large number of responses specifically about EXMO20 and obviously that is going to have, going directly onto the B3179 so it's going to have a direct impact on the number of vehicle journeys every day going across the Pebblebed Heaths because that would be the main access point onto that road um so to do officers believe that that is going to be something that is going to be that is going on which that site allocation is going to stand and fall whether or not we can pass the um the air quality uh standards that are going to be required um to for the conservation of the Pebblebed Heaths thanks um through you chair just to respond to that I mean Obviously, EXMO20, as has been said, does contribute to the uplift in vehicle movements over the Pebblehead Heaps.

01:32:12But I wouldn't want members to think that that's the only site. There are a large number of sites in the plan that have an impact in terms of the air quality issues. Because fundamentally, the A3052 is one of the main arterial routes through the district and runs directly over the Pebblehead Heaps. so there's a lot of sites right the way east across the district where people's natural movement east west across the district is along the a3052 sites as far east as seat and have an impact so we need to consider the cumulative impact of the strategy in the plan and that's what we're doing at the moment obviously should we get to a position where we can't come up with an adequate mitigation strategy then you know all things need to be considered as potential ways of addressing those but we're not at the point yet of looking at individual sites and revisiting allocations um I say I'll know more once I've met with the consultant team next week and we'll bring further updates to the committee as things move forward but

01:33:15I'm not at the point of looking at potentially changing our views on allocations at this stage Vice Chair, Councillor Bailey.

01:33:24Thank you very much. I just wanted to ask Ed, please, about the Supported Housing Regulatory Oversight Act 2023 and new statutory guidance around supported living and how that fits in with our policy HN03 and HN04 and whether we're developing that strategy at the moment. I think the short answer is I'm not familiar with that so I don't know I would need to look into that and come back to you Councillor Jung just to explain that the air quality report was on air quality now and the effect of transport basically on the public where he's now and not in the future so we have to do something to correct what is happening now not what might happen in the future yeah just just to clarify so there's an assessment of the situation now this is an existing problem you're right um in terms of the Local Plan we need to consider the impact of the growth in the plan and how it makes that situation worse but it's not that we're creating a problem through through the plan as drafted it's an existing problem that we

01:34:50Weren't previously aware of because you know the guidance from Natural England the studies the work didn't exist to understand these impacts um but it is an existing impact um the impact on the Local Plan is the additional growth and how that adds to that impact um but it's very much an existing problem I really think we're in debate now anyway Councillor Faithfull did you want to it's just another little question june 2027 is that still likely to be achievable as a going live and also while we're at it can we check punctuation and grammar in there there's some monsters in there thank you any other cancers yes Councillor Levine thank you chair I was saving my stupid question to the end the air quality the pebble heath Pebblebed Heaths it's totally out of our hands we the public will decide what sort of cars they're going to drive electric diesel so the question that I had was came to my mind why is it not possible to impose an ultra low emission zone for the roads on through the heat I really think that's one for Devon County Council

01:36:17Might be something that comes out in mitigation I don't think mr Freeman you want to attempt that do you well um well my understanding is you know it wouldn't it wouldn't prevent polluting vehicles from going through there they would have to pay a charge fundamentally so what would they be paying a charge to it would have to be to deliver mitigation and that's where we are is trying to develop a mitigation strategy so the EULA zone would be about how do we collect contributions to that mitigation strategy but from a planning perspective our concern is the impact of growth in the Local Plan so a eula zone might be an alternative way of of collecting funding towards that strategy but it's it's way beyond planning and and this council uh as as chair says it would be potentially for Devon County Council and wider issues because you're effectively charging people that already live here and already drive that road whereas from a planning perspective we're concerned with future growth and future residents and the impact of of that

01:37:25Right committee no other speakers can see young against the Bailey then yeah one of the suggestions from was that we have frequently asked questions so we can cover most of these points and I would like to make a suggestion that that's added to the recommendations for this report are you proposing all recommendations or just I would like to propose the two recommendations plus a third one to introduce FAQs thank you very much Councillor Before you do Casa Fitzgerald did you want no Casa visual I'm at one those days yeah did you any chance yes I do very much thank you mike um concerning the air quality seeing the report here that um it is presumed that there will be less diesel and petrol cars so therefore by definition less pollution however electric cars are supposed to be the future if the take-up is as anticipated.

01:38:50There'll be a lot more electric cars, which are about 50% heavier than a conventional car because of the batteries. This gives a 30% increase in tyre wear, which produces miniscule little bits of rubber which will be flying around in the air on that road, which is going to really leave the pollution more or less as it is. It's not going to make it any better or any worse because the fact that we've got less diesel and less petrol fumes is going to be balanced out by the rubber.

01:39:22So we've got one going out and one coming in. So that was a point I'd like to make. Also, the old chestnut of the lack of capacity from southwest water for sewerage, which seems to be put down to the future. Well, we'll see what happens sort of thing. There's no specific southwest water will put in a treatment plant here, there and everywhere where they're necessary but it's not stated in, it's very vague in the report as and when and as Mr. Freeman said earlier where it runs for up to another 20 years but we're assuming it will be done in 20 years the last major investment by Southwest Water was a clean sweep which was about 25 years ago and body salt and eczema for limestone nothing's happened since and we all know that it floods regularly it's not fit for purpose and also one other thing if I may it's assumed that the access to eczema of 20 if heaven forbid it goes ahead will be through through the main road going past the archery club

01:40:33In the Pebblebed Heaths however my interpretation of the mppf is there is a buffer zone of 400 metres where nothing can go through that buffer zone. No construction. Well, a road is a construction. Therefore, we cannot use that to get to the main road.

01:40:52Thank you, Chair. Do you want to have a go? Yes, thank you, Chair. So, yes, I mean, our understanding is that obviously there will be less diesel and petrol vehicles in the future, and the expectation is that electric vehicles will become more normal. well there will be more electric vehicles on the road and that does partly address the issue that's partly what the consultants have been remodeling is more up-to-date evidence about the likely uptake of electric vehicles in the years to come um it's the um gaseous emissions from diesel and petrol vehicles that has the impact on the habitat so the change to electric vehicles does fundamentally quite significantly addressed that I I don't I don't know enough about it to to comment on sort of rubber pollution coming from uh increased um tire wear through there but I don't think that in itself necessarily has an issue on that on the habitat um but no doubt our consultants will be looking at that issue as well um in terms of sewage capacity um is very much something we're looking at and we are in discussions with southwest water and trying

01:42:10To understand the timeline of their investments in infrastructure versus our trajectories for housing sites coming forward and how all of that works to ensure that the infrastructure is in place in time before the new homes are built and occupied um and and development starts to impact on their infrastructure that is going to take time to to resolve I'm not expecting we're going to have those answers uh for the Local Plan I don't think we need those answers for the Local Plan fundamentally but I do appreciate the concerns that members and and residents have about those issues so we are in ongoing discussions and working with them to try and get to a position where we have a full understanding of how they will enhance their infrastructure to address the incoming future demands on it that will come through the Local Plan and the developments proposed within it um I think the 400 meter buffer zone is one of the things that perhaps needs to be picked up in this faqs because I think there is some some misunderstanding over

01:43:11That um but that there is no reason why you can't have an access road to a site through the 400 meter zone um the 400 meter zone is is is more about um particularly residential development uh and and the impacts of that on the 400 meters and and the Pebblebed Heaths I know there's some disagreement over how we should interpret it in terms of commercial developments which perhaps we need to clarify um but there's certainly no reason why you can't have a road within the 400 meters it's your choice um right council young hopefully for the last time yeah just to come I'll come back on a couple of points that Councillor Bailey brought up.

01:43:56Southwest Water do a five-year plan on their investments, and Exmouth is included in the next five-year plan. That seems to be possibly going into the next five-year plan at the moment. There's a misnomer on rubber tyres. They're not rubber tyres, they're plastic. And what is picked up, what is left on the road is microplastics that go into the drains, that go into the rivers, that goes into the sea.

01:44:30And that is something that the environment agency and other bodies are working on at the moment. Right. We have a proposal on this. Mr Chairman, is my question not worthy of an answer? June 20... through the future I mean with the submission date of the plan changing obviously the rest of the timetable will change in terms of when the examination will be and when ultimately adoption of the plan would be envisaged so I think I said in the report we'll need to update the local development scheme when we've worked all of that out and we'll bring that to a future meeting for members to consider right going back to the proposal so we have recommendation one and to and Councillor Jung you wish a third recommendation which is basically the faqs mr Freeman knows about to be done and sorted and second is happy with that are you happy with that I just wanted just to clarify because my understanding was that it was for uh mr Freeman to bring a report back to the next uh spc meeting answering the questions raised that

01:45:38Today's meeting but is is it broader that you know with further questions that you're intending to come back with the answers to my understanding and throws back to the committee if they want to correct me was that it was on on wider issues in that um a number of public speakers made have raised a number of issues over frequently over a number of meetings now around legal compliance with the Habitat Regulations um the housing numbers issue for example the position in terms of the water cycle study and investments by Southwest Water and just wanting a concise document that brings together those key issues that keep being raised as sort of frequently asked questions that members can then refer to in future.

01:46:26And that certainly was my understanding. Going to Councillor Hayward's point earlier on as well about other answers, I think I would pick that up with the Cabinet member who's not here today to see how we can work that through a different system. but I was happy with that um Councillor Fitzgerald chair from my point of view is just to make sure that we're clear that [member of the public] clear what you want uh that's all because I thought it it had developed to more than just the answers to today's questions thank you can I suggest that alongside the uh the uh water provision water and wastewater provision that also is included just Just the general statutory consultees, so that's highways and NHS as well, because that's something that keeps coming up again and again, and I think people often don't understand that that's something which runs alongside but isn't directly under our control.

01:47:18Thank you. Right, committee. We have a proposal, all seconded. Can I have a show of hands, all in agreement, please? Unanimous. We've debated. we've been debating for quite a while I did say we'd moved into debate a while ago so check can we just check then is that unanimous can I please have a show of hands those agreeing with recommendation was against is that an abstention that's an abstention yeah okay I think we need a 10 minute break please committee before we come back the last two items so tend to tend to please why then committee please can I

02:00:06Please remind committee when speaking to speak directly into the mics people at the back are struggling even so so moving on item eight the heritage strategy 24 to 42 mr Freeman please uh thank you chair so members will be aware that when we consulted on the second Reg 19 consultation on the Local Plan we also consulted alongside that on an updated heritage strategy uh which aligns with the plan period for the Local Plan and takes us through to 2042 um so this report uh feeds back on the comments that we received uh through that consultation and the changes that were subsequently made to the plan so you'll see there's a full list of amendments to the strategy and our response to the feedback in appendix a and then appendix b you have a track changes version of the strategy that just draws all of those amendments and changes together a lot of this really is is not about the fundamentals of the strategy I think respondents on for the most part you know can see that it's great that we've got a heritage strategy and we have these plans in place to look

02:01:20After and enhance heritage assets in the district it's largely consultation responses about the wording that's used in places references to to legislation and requirements of the legislation um and things like that um that we've sought to address um through the changes to the plan so I'm not going to go through all of those in in in detail it's it's there in the report and the appendices for members to to review um we did have a good response through the consultation and we've considered all of those comments I would ask members to agree uh adoption of the final strategy um as set out that's recommendation one and then members are asked to note the strategy and how it supports local planners evidence and three note that the strategy should be taken into account as a guide for our cultural tourism and planning functions thank you thank you very much Mr. Freeman, going straight outside of committee.

02:02:16Councillor Hookway, did you want to? Thank you, Chair. Thank you for letting me speak. Yes, so anything that has a mention of culture and tourism picks my attention, and I'm very supportive of the heritage strategy in particular, but it's the sections on the World Heritage Site that are the ones that I'm most concerned about. This is a superb attraction for visitors that for many years I think we have underplayed.

02:02:52However, recently there have been changes to the way it's been marketed, and those will be coming to overview at the end of the month. But really we do need to appreciate the World Heritage Site for what it is, and also to understand that it is under attack from climate change and coastal erosion and that therefore that this particular strategy is a very important part in the jigsaw in protecting the World Heritage Site and reassuring people that we're looking after it and also to allow officers and businesses that rely upon the World Heritage Site that we are supporting them and we are going to do our best to try and protect it so therefore I hope the committee will support the recommendations particularly number three thank you chair very much nothing else outside no Councillor Collins thank you chair I'm rather disappointed with the report there's very little mention of agriculture heritage sadly many farms in East Devon have gone now they've been converted into dwellings holiday cottages etc or businesses and we need to protect the

02:04:28Traditional farms that are left I don't know how you can do that but they certainly need protecting. They have valuable history going back many, many centuries and generations. My farm in particular is mentioned in 1100s. So there's history all the way back from 1100 to the present day. And I still farm in a traditional way with the stone buildings and everything not these modern type porter buildings I did go to stockland a couple years ago when they had a local history display there and I do recommend that people go to these things when they see them advertised but at stockland it showed years ago when there were a big estate and the farms were all rented from the estate and how that worked.

02:05:29Most of that is lost now, but you still do have the Clinton estate in East Devon. That's about the only one we've got now that rents out farms. It's very sad to me. I quite like the way the aristocracy used to work years ago and what is left we should be preserving. And, you know, it does sadden me terribly when I travel around Devon all over and you see all these farms gone.

02:06:04And like I say, there's tremendous history and farming families, many have been there for a good many generations. There's a seventh generation now on my farm from father to son. Earlier on, Councillor Hayward said about landowners can sell that. Why are they selling their land? They're forced to sell very often because you get developers come round. They've come round to me since 1985. I've got probably 20 letters or more home from various solicitors, developers, wanting to take your land.

02:06:42And they'll tell you packs of lies that your neighbours are signing up and all the rest of it. So farmers are generally forced into selling because they're afraid that they will have compulsory purchase put on them if they don't.

02:06:58Thank you, Chair. Thank you very much. Right, into committee. Councillor Faithfull, you.

02:07:07Thank you, Chair. Yeah. Can we please have the correct list of portfolio holders at the top of our agenda for a start? And my question on that is why is this is clearly about culture and environment, as is described with central MPPF and all that. So why is the culture or environment portfolio holders not included with a cross on them? um also why is um norman [member of the public] observatory not recognized as a heritage asset and is I mean there's a whole stack of typos and spelling in there which could we please get through go through and check that but also aomb sometimes we're saying national landscapes and sometimes we're still talking AOMB so could that be corrected I think that's enough for now thank you very much Councillor Fitzgerald yeah thank you for this it's really interesting read I'm particularly interested in the listed building side of things it I I don't think it mentions in the report how many listed buildings there are in East Devon I would be really interested if that number if we

02:08:31Know that number to know what it is I suspect there's an awful lot of them compared with other parts of the country I'm also I live in a listed building myself and there's there's there must be several dozen listed buildings in in my village I think I tried to count them the other day I saw a map it was at least sort of 50 in in a happy in a village of something like 300 350 houses. I'm quite staggered often speaking to other listed building owners how little people know about their obligations as an owner of a listed building and I'm interesting to read through this and understand what the obligations are and what enforcement action can be taken when works are done to enlisted buildings that are effectively illegal.

02:09:28And I know that some really quite, well, devastating works have happened to really important buildings in my ward. Once the work's done, even if enforcement action is taken afterwards, you can't replace what has been taken away. so my question is really around to I hear all the time people saying oh well you can do what you like to the inside of a grade two listed building can't you I would say that the majority of people I speak to about that and quite often trades people as well that is their understanding so what could this council do to help educate people who are purchasing listed buildings about what their duties and obligations are um to help them make sure that they're on the front foot thank you on that being as you mentioned the word purchasing although I'll come back to your point their their lawyer their solicitor is the person that should be telling them exactly what their responsibilities are at that time because at the purchase point all those are exactly what the solicitor is for your point though and and what I think you're making is later on

02:10:47That's a different matter and I do think there might be something we as um east evan possibly but the other councils around actually do as a pr bit to actually remind people to check their listing to make sure what's included in their listing but fundamentally your point at purchasing that's what the lawyers and solicitors are for because they explain it very well I don't think I had explained to me by my solicitor when we bought our house and that was only what six seven years six years ago uh I don't recall that at all so perhaps the you know and it's a it seems like a direct channel to to there's only certain certain number of conveyancing solicitors well that's if you use a solicitor within the district but um perhaps that would be a good sort of starting point I suppose in terms of educating people who need to be told thank you no problem Councillor Hayward please thank you chair um it's just a one very minor point one is to thank all the officers involved for bringing this forward to us and for compiling it it's an

02:11:58Utterly fascinating document um and very helpful uh and a really interesting read for anyone even if you're not interested in planning if you watch this afterwards it's a wonderful document that sums up why we love living where we live. The other minor point, very parochial, 2.23 of the edited report. Again, it's a very parochial one. Could the officers just include Axminster in that list of towns in East Devon that have a conservation area? We are name-checked elsewhere, but in that particular item, it sort of excludes us. Thank you, Chair.

02:12:33Thank you very much. Opening up to debate, we've really done the questions. Anyone wish to? In that case, I will move from the chair. Oh, Councillor Jung, sorry. yeah thank you for that um two things um listed buildings um now people who work on listed buildings deserve medals and I would like to see some sort of um help provided by east heaven when these people want planning permission because I have more queries over listed building consent than pretty well anything else.

02:13:21Whether that's going to be possible. Also, picking up from my colleague on the Council at Hookway, Jurassic Coast, As I'm responsible for the coastal protection side of things, we are fully aware of the importance of the Jurassic Coast and our joint business that is looking at coastal protection with Bournemouth, Poole and Christchurch. we're working on a policy of how we do that on the Jurassic Coast. It's interesting that Jurassic Coast is in the same category as the Taj Mahal.

02:14:15And if you ever consider that the Indian government would repaint it or do something with it, that is the same sort of category that the Jurassic Coast is in. So we have to look at the Jurassic Coast very, very carefully when we're doing any coastal protection works.

02:14:41Thank you. Thank you very much. No other takers? In that case, I will move from the chair the three recommendations which you've all got in front of you. I don't need a seconder for that. Any other comments? Sir Levine, are you all right? I would call them to the chair. Yeah, no problem. um right then committee no further discussion can I have a show of hands for those in favor of the recommendation council of faithful yep unanimous that is in that case moving on to number nine the custom buildings self-building custom house building updates mr Freeman please uh thank you chair so long-standing members of the committee will be familiar with these annual reports on the self-building custom house building monitoring reports um so the latest position is that um there's a supply of 18 plots come forwards in the 24 25 monitoring periods that's a modest increase on the 15 of 23 24 um and the figure continues to fit with the trend of of lower levels of supply noted in recent years um but this does um meet the requirements and it is sufficient fundamentally

02:15:59I'm not going to go into the detail that's in the report obviously there's a lot of detail about the specifics of of this happy to pick up any questions but fundamentally the recommendations are that members are asked to endorse the draft monitoring report for use in planning decisions both policy and development management and agree it's publication on the website note the eight individuals that have been added to the self-built register in the monitoring period which generates a need to permission six further plots suitable between October 25 and October 28 so we need to make sure that we do that in the coming years albeit on current projections we should do and three note the demand for self-build plots indicated on the register should be taken into account in our planning housing regeneration and the state functions thank you very much committee nothing at all well outside committee there's only two left no no kind of face cancer faithful thank you chair well if you go to is it part four on page 12 is that all the publicity effort we've made because you look at

02:17:18The numbers this is not to me an acknowledgement of how many people are interested in self-build it's about how many people are willing to put their names forward to East Devon District Council as to whether or not they're interested but if nobody knows that the register is there because to find it you have to go through God knows what here there and everywhere into planning and tucked away right at the back if people don't know the register exists nobody's going to put their name onto it so I don't think it's got anything like the publicity it needs for to acknowledge how many people are actually genuinely interested so I think this is not a sound piece of work because of the simple fact that to say that only eight people are interested and all these tables you got or because there happened to be a group of people in wimple that seem to know about it so we've got all these numbers for wimble and so I don't think this is the figures you're working with are sound thank you chair

02:18:23Just on that if you type in self-build east evan into any web search the very second hit you get is self-build and custom register how to register so I would argue quite the opposite I mean it's not perfect nothing ever is in life but nevertheless mr Freeman would you like to make a comment on that um you've beaten me to it sure I did exactly the same thing I just googled it um it was the first thing that comes up basically I mean every author every local authority in the country has to have a self-build register um so anyone who's investigated self-build will know that there's a register and hopefully we'll just google East Devon district council self-build register and it'll take them straight to it so um I'm not I'm not sure what else we could do anyway to be honest because we don't know necessarily where these people are going to come from and where the interest is to target them.

02:19:15So all we can do is have a web page that they can find and a Google search, so they should be able to find that easily. Yes, go for it. Well, it's a very simple way to let people know. It's called East Devon District Council Facebook page.

02:19:32Thank you. Nevertheless. Right, committee, no other comments on that, only just about PR and we have three recommendations everyone's read them as per the agenda I'll move from the chair again there's no one else wants to speak unless are you Casley would that man I really does make me nervous in that case I'll move it I'll move from the chair the three recommendations as per written looking at Damien you happy with that good in that case show of hands please committee yeah yeah and against abstention so one against and that's it in that case thank you very much committee that is the end of our agenda today good luck good night and see you soon