Strategic Planning Committee, 19 May 2025

00:15:18Okay, hello everyone. We're going to make a start. To start us off then with a health and safety announcement. There is no fire alarm drill anticipated today. If the alarm sounds, please leave the building through the nearest fire exit by following the signs above the doors. Make your way to the rear of the car park and wait there until you are told it is safe to return. And please also make sure all phones are either muted or switched off.

00:15:49To start the meeting proper then, good morning everyone and welcome to the Strategic Planning Committee meeting on Monday the 19th of May 2025. I'm your Chair, Councillor Todd Olive. Supporting officers present today are Ed Freeman, Assistant Director, Planning, Strategy and Development Management, Damian Hunter, Planning Solicitor, Melissa Wall, who is Section 106 Officer, and Wendy Harris, Democratic Services Officer. Can I remind everyone present that this meeting is recorded for publication on the Council's website, so please can members and officers making a contribution to the meeting use a microphone or your comments will not be recorded.

00:16:31Before I start the meeting then, just to advise everyone there has been one change to committee membership following annual council last week. A big thanks to Councillor Bethany Collins, who has joined us today on her day off for fun. She's left us to join the planning committee out of the coals and into the fire, I think there, Councillor Collins, possibly. And a big welcome to Councillor Del Haggerty, who's joined the committee but isn't with us today.

00:17:02We'll now start the meeting then by doing a roll call of committee members and declaration of interests, please.

00:17:09Thank you, Chair. So I'll start with yourself, Councillor Olive. Present and nothing to declare, save some lobbying emails, reference item 7.

00:17:20Thank you. Councillor Brian Bailey. Present. Wendy, nothing to declare. Councillor Jess Bailey. Present, and I would like to declare, please, an ORI in item number 7. I will be speaking as a member of the public and then leaving the room, not participating in any voting or discussion.

00:17:44Thank you. Councillor Blakey. Present and no declarations. Thank you. Councillor Colin Brown. Present and no declarations other than item 7. I think we've all had an email or letter on that one.

00:18:03Thank you. Councillor Hayward. Thank you. Present. Similarly, an ORI in respect of my role as Devon County Councillor, I'll also be recusing myself during that item. Thank you.

00:18:19Thank you. Councillor Ingham. Presence. No declarations. Thank you. Councillor Jung. Present. I've got declarations of interest for Agenda Item 7, seal bids. There are a number of environmental proposals being proposed that have had party in development. Agenda Item 8, South East Devon Habitat Mitigation. I sit on the Joint Committee for the Habitat Mitigation and discuss the proposal that is recommended to this committee. And Agenda Item 10, Planning and Infrastructure Bill.

00:18:57There are a number of changes to environmental practices addressed in the report. However, I understand the importance of all the other key drivers that are not included in my portfolio, and therefore I come to this meeting with an open mind and listen to all views for and against.

00:19:13Thank you. Councillor, could I just check, actually, is that an NRI, then, for the first two? NRI, yeah. Yeah, thank you.

00:19:27Thank you. Councillor Ledger. No, Councillor Levine. President, no declaration, but may I say that it's so nice to see smiling faces at the top table. Councillor Parr. Present, no declarations.

00:19:49Thank you. And can I just ask the non-committee members here, present today, do they have any declarations? Councillor Rylance.

00:19:58Thank you, Wendy. So, yes, I do have a declaration. As a patient of Pinho and Broadcliffe's surgery, so Agenda Item 7, which I also intend to speak on, That's an effects NRI, isn't it, I think? It's an effects NRI so long as you don't think that you're prejudiced in any way further than anybody else. So is that what you're saying? Yeah, okay, that's fine then, yeah.

00:20:27Thank you. Any other non-committee members? Councillor Faithfull? I'm not sure if I really need to declare it, but I will anyway. Possibly it has been in the past effects NRI. I have quite some time ago had private conversations in relation to Tipton primary school being in Tipton but I've not had any conversations for about a year thank you back to you chair okay thank you Wendy before we move on to agenda item one then members will note there is a gap on the smiling front table so we need to elect a vice chair for today's meeting please and I'd like to propose Councillor Levine all those in favour please are you still smiling Councillor Levine he knew it was coming okay Okay. Agenda item one, then. The minutes of the previous meeting held what feels like an eon ago on the 4th of February 2025. Does anybody have any comments or corrections on those minutes, please? No? Okay. In which case, then, as chair, I'd like to move those minutes as a true and accurate record. Members, please raise your hand if you're in support.

00:22:12Thank you. That's clearly carried. Agenda item two, then. Apologies. I have apologies from Councillors Davey, Howe, Fernley and Haggerty. Have we had any further apologies in, Wendy? Just non-committee member, Councillor Charlotte Fitzgerald. Okay. Thank you. Agenda item three, then declarations of interest we have already done, which brings us then to agenda item four, public speaking. We do have a number of members of the public registered to speak this morning. So just a reminder, please, to everyone, you will have three minutes as soon as you press the right hand button on the microphone at the lectern and your remaining time will be shown on the screen. First up, then we have [member of the public].

00:22:59Good morning, and thank you for allowing me to speak this morning on affordable rural housing, and more specifically on rural exception sites and East Devon's policy of requiring housing needs surveys to justify affordable rural housing, which I consider to be contravening paragraph 82 of the NPPF. And I'll just read that paragraph, too, that people may need to be refreshed. Paragraph 82 says, local planning authorities should support opportunities to bring forward rural exception sites that will provide affordable rural housing to meet identified rural needs.

00:23:54[Passage not reproduced here. It contains allegations or strong criticism of named people or the council, made at the meeting. We don't repeat allegations; you can hear the passage in the council's own recording by playing it from this point.]

00:24:30A recent Freedom of Information Act request identified that there are only three parishes in the whole of East Devon, that's out of about 65 or 68 parishes, that have conducted a housing needs survey in the last two years. So if there are no housing needs surveys carried out, there will be no affordable rural housing. I must assume that this is a deliberate policy on behalf of East Devon District Council to prevent affordable rural housing.

00:25:05So why doesn't East Devon follow the practice of, say, Mid-Devon District Council? Why does it not want affordable rural housing? Well, the answer must surely lie with you, the councillors. but as an outsider it appears that East Devon is using these housing need surveys as a blocking mechanism in order to endear and pander themselves to the NIMBY voters who are very important at election time. I would hope that the votes of the NIMBYs are not going to dominate the need for affordable rural housing. Thank you for your time. Thank you [member of the public] could you just switch the microphone off please thank you by way of response I'm not going to come to officers on this you you will be aware and you've had a number of emails which have copied to other members of this Authority that have addressed why we don't currently use housing needs surveys as a measure for that it is because they're not an appropriate measure because there are flaws with that data which means for example folks with no actual identified need come into

00:26:18That figure of 5,100 or so families. It's not an appropriate figure to use. It's very difficult for us to localize the way the data set is set up. With all that said, I believe we will be looking when it comes to revising our affordable housing supplementary planning document following adoption of the new Local Plan, we will be looking at revising that SPD. And one of the things that we will look at is how we can use whether we can use an adapted version of the housing wait list that in some way takes into account of that method of data collection but it will require improvement for it to be used as a valid data input to the planning process the alternative is that we're effectively opening up a free-for-all all the way across East Devon and developers could pay a couple of thousand pounds to have a housing needs survey done and effectively justify building anywhere in the countryside anywhere in East Devon that's fundamentally counter to what the MPPF says to what the Local Plan says and we have to have regard to that as well with that said

00:27:26Then we'll move on to next public speaker Councillor Henry Chent good morning Henry thank you chair thank you for having me to speak and I'm speaking to item seven there's still expenditure policy and as the division member for broadlist division with five of the items on the agenda of great importance to my division I and they're all on the list of proposed to be accepted I very much hope that you are going to accept the recommendations of this report notwithstanding how sad I am for the items which have been missed off such as Tipton St John which I I feel for dearly but these items are really important for Broadcliffe's division and I'm very much hoping you will accept the report and I'm not going to reiterate it but I would just say that as division member I'm very conscious as far as the school is concerned of how incredibly pressing the need is to get a new school at Tide Barn and more information is coming through almost by the week from county officers and recently in April we learned how many pupils who live in

00:28:39Tide Barn have failed to get a place at Monkerton school their nearest primary school and of those I think it was 18 who couldn't get a place at Monkerton nine of them couldn't get a place in their top three so children are having to go to their fourth or fifth choice well into Exeter or to Cliff St. Mary and the situation is really desperate and I did a bit of canvassing in Tide Barn and nearly every door I opened there seemed to be toddlers in the hallway behind the parent and parents anxious about whether this school is going to be built at Tide Barn so I can't emphasize how important that is and the surgery at Pinho is likewise something where time is of the essence it really is important to get that surgery built as soon to get that extension built as soon as possible and um as you some of you may know that the the practice are going to close their list in october if they haven't got definite uh route forward by then

00:29:39Um so it's it's it's really important um and we've been delayed sadly but by the pre-election period this meeting's been delayed and those critical decisions have been put off for too long so please do accept the recommendations of this report thank you very much indeed oh I just did want to say the Cranbrook thing about the road the london road it is actually really important it may not seem all that urgent but it's really vital that the london road at Cranbrook which currently is almost like a bypass of the town will no longer be a bypass of the town it will be a thread that draws together the new southern extensions of Cranbrook a lot of thought's been going into that for a long time and it's really important to keep the ball rolling on london road so please don't leave that one off the list either I support all the recommendations thank you thank you Councillor Gent on the same item we have [member of the public] aher thank you very much especially yes I was rather a late comer for allowing me to speak uh on the subject of the tipton st john

00:30:53Primary school feasibility bid. Basically, very simply, what I'm going to ask is that this item is deferred, awaiting further discussion and clarity on the Department of Education's actual needs and requirements. Tipton School is without doubt in need of a new building, but as far as the village goes and I am a resident and have been for 35 years I've also had children at the school for the last 26 27 years um it's the heart of our village and if the school's taken out of the village then the village itself will die so I think it's very important that we get everything correct at each stage which is why I'm asking for a deferment of this item until a later date so that we can have clarity on exactly what the Department of Education requires I hope that's made it clear thank you very much for your time okay thank you and we can consider that point if members should wish to when we get to item seven. Next up then on agenda item nine, [member of the public].

00:32:21Good morning, [member of the public]. Good morning, Mr. Freeman. Good morning, all. My name is [name removed] [member of the public].

00:32:52I still live in Ting Tong. I sat down to prepare for today the 1933 film Sons of the Desert came to mind, picking up on Councillor Vine's thing there, starred Laurel and Hardy, and Ollie says to Stan, well, here's another fine mess you've gotten me into. I couldn't work out who was Ollie and who was Stan. I spoke to you on the 11th of December last year, and again on the 4th of February this year.

00:33:16On both occasions, I urge you to stop and think. Take the necessary time and get the critical process of this plan right. We all know the Regulation 19 consultation went ahead. It was met with a huge response. 3,461 comments of Friday last of which 1,791 were on chapter 5 you are all aware of the strength of feeling against EXMO20 it's reasonable to assume many of those comments were against EXMO20 let's not forget at your last meeting Brian Bailey said he wished he hadn't voted for it and he said many of you are of the same opinion we were allowed 42 days to make our submission. 48 days since the deadline, your own staff are still entering comments. Mr. Freeman tells us it's a time-consuming process. I say to him, try using Commonplace. Mr. Freeman further suggests members of the public deliberately try to make things difficult. I say to him again, we didn't need to. You did it to yourselves. You should either substantiate that or withdraw it, Mr. Freeman. The inadequacy of the plan and the consultation is made clear by the report today.

00:34:30We await technical input, outputs and evidence. The timetable is not now a realistic proposition. We must fully consider representations from the past. We must make changes. At the meeting of the 4th of February, Jess Bailey was clearly concerned that this plan and consultation were not robust enough. On that day, she was ignored. I'm sure she's pleased now. At least Mr Freeman agrees with her. Alongside 3,461 comments on Commonplace, this plan has managed to upset the statutory bodies, the Environment Agency, Natural England, other authorities.

00:35:05You've even upset the NHS. There are concerns about specific sites and to the plan as a whole. So I conclude as I started last year, please delay this plan. Follow the right and lawful processes. Get the site selection right. Am I right to continue, [member of the public]? Mr. Olive, have I got your attention? You do have my attention, yes.

00:35:29Thank you very much indeed. Follow the right and lawful processes. Get the site selection right. Get the consultation right. Take your time. Plan carefully. And you know, if the EXMO20 were dropped, perhaps you would not be in this condition. Finally, because I'm out of time, Oliver Hardy was famous for another quote. You know there's a right way and a wrong way to do everything. I urge you to do it the right way.

00:35:54Thank you thank you [member of the public] for those comments I'm going to ask mr. Freeman to respond as we have three speakers on more or less the same topic and so I'll ask mr. Freeman to respond once all three have spoken just to save a bit of time there next we have I believe a written statement from [member of the public] which Wendy's going to read out for us please thank you chair dear councillors further to my email that I sent to you on the 1st of may 2025 I would like to take this opportunity to highlight the following very brief summary of my Reg 18 investigation and as a consequence of these findings and those identified in my email of the 1st of may I also request that you remove EXMO20 from the draft Local Plan before it is put forward to the planning inspectorate. The following is a brief summary of my findings. Number one, EXMO20 was identified within the HELAA report as available but not suitable or achievable.

00:37:02This along with your own site selection methodology document dated May 2022 which was not changed until December 2024 means that EXMO20 failed stage 2 site sifting. Therefore it should not have been put forward for consultation at Reg 18 at the developers presentation on the 9th of august 2022 the land at St John's was presented by three developers during this presentation Councillor Nick hookway asked if the northern part of the site was being developed to which the developers responded no the only part of the site being proposed for development was a southern part for 75 plus 75 homes then Jessica Councillor Jessica Bailey asked what site are we discussing here to which one of the developers answered I think it is EXMO20 they should have been correctly informed that it was really site Exmo_46 the draft Local Plan for Reg 18 should have referenced Exmo_46, not Exmo 20B. The HELAA report, provided as evidence in Reg 18 and Reg 19, does not reference Exmo 20A or Exmo 20B, but does reference EXMO20 and Exmo_46. The Exmo site's additional information document provided as evidence in

00:38:31Reg. 18, see pages 31 to 34, does not reference Exmo 20A or Exmo 20B, but does reference EXMO20 and Exmo_46. It also states that EXMO20 is not being promoted for development. The Sustainability Appraisal Report, November 22, provided as evidence in Reg. 18, see pages 251 to 268 does not reference Exmo 20A or Exmo 20B, but does reference EXMO20 and Exmo_46. It also states that EXMO20 is not being promoted for development.

00:39:14The two new sites, Exmo 20A and Exmo 20B, suddenly appeared in the Exmo sites map as part of the report pack for the SPC meeting on the 1st of November 2022, a mere six days before the start of Reg 18. It is interesting that these new sites are never discussed at the meeting. Why? If you suddenly split a site into two parts, then as a minimum, the descriptions for those parts are different, but it will also change the composition of the sites. Yet no discussions took place within this meeting. Based on all the above, it is evidence that only Exmo_46 should have been put forward for Regulation 18 consultation and that sites Exmo 20A and Exmo 20B should never been created, never mind put forward into Reg 18. In light of the evidence provided, I urge you to remove EXMO20 from the draft Local Plan before it is put forward to the planning inspectorate. End of statement.

00:40:26Thank you, Wendy. [member of the public]. Well, that consultation didn't go as you planned. It exposed the half-baked plan that many had voiced concerns over, including councillors here on the 4th of February, but concerns were pacified by Mr. Freeman and Mr. Olive, Councillor Olive, sorry. Before discussing timescales, understand tweaking of this plan is not going to deal with the fundamental problems dating back years. Reg 19 is not a draft for you. It's the version you should believe can be adopted, but is so obviously deficient. For example, EXMO20 failed the initial HELAA test, yet the Reg 19 evidence falsely states it passed, justifying its inclusion. This site was not available, suitable, or achievable. The policy team do not seem to care. Any concerns you councillors have will likely be pacified. False evidence, either intentionally or via incompetence. Neither will be acceptable to the inspector. Further evidence has been fiddled with. The site selection methodology used has disappeared and replaced by a different methodology. Some chosen sites could not be included due to the methodology, but rather than reselect sites, the policy team amended the

00:41:53Evidence. They clearly don't care. Any concerns you councillors have will probably be pacified, but the inspector will be very concerned. I have a question to be answered today. The Reg 19 HRA stated an inherent conflict within the plan and could not support it. The planning inspector's guidance notes state, the LPA should rigorously assess the plan before it is published under Reg 19 to ensure that, in their view, it is sound and meets all the necessary legal requirements. So did this LPA believe in its view that with an HRA stating that the Reg 19 plan was sound and met all the necessary legal requirements? Please answer yes or no so it's clear to the inspector. There is a fundamental Habs Reg principle of avoidance over mitigation that you are yet to assess the site selections against but you're already spending thousands on ecologist to justify a site that contradicts this principle oh and failed HELAA there is a there's no point spending sill money for the pebble beds or endorsing the wildlife strategy today if you are as a competent authority disregard your legal duties councillors you've had to sit

00:43:11Here and be told reports are forthcoming and iterative in development yet that your site selections were set in stone last year cannot be revisited despite evidence filtering through potentially changing your opinions. Like in January that the EXMO20 site will have no meaningful access to Deenam Way or Exmo for itself and rely on a dangerous rural road that already has excessive nitrogen levels at the internationally protected sites. Meanwhile a wonderful new road is under construction linking to the preferred but currently discarded Holland Road sites. If you want to maintain control of this Local Plan, first accept, as agreed and minuted, the Reg 18 consultation was only for the preferred and second choice sites. Therefore, that must be your site selection pot. Please give these councillors the information needed before their decisions are considered final. Your behaviour will be judged by the inspector, the ombudsman, the judicial review Thank you, Judge. Thank you. Happy to take any questions.

00:44:21Thank you, [member of the public]. I will come then to Mr. Freeman, just to come back on points raised by those three speakers, please.

00:44:30Thank you, Chair. Good morning, Members. Well, I'm not going to respond to points about the merits or otherwise of EXMO20, because that's not for today. that we will obviously be bringing a report, a feedback report. Can we have quiet from the public gallery, please? We will obviously be bringing a feedback report on the Regulation 19 consultation to members in due course, setting out the responses that we've received and officers' response to those and recommendations about how we proceed with the plan.

00:45:04So I think those are issues to be considered at that point in time rather than today. Today's report is simply about the timescales. um take the points that have been raised about uh taking time and getting it right obviously we've been working on this plan since 2021 so I don't feel it's been rushed um it's been a an ongoing process and obviously we continue to work in refining the plan and the evidence that supports it and we'll continue to do so up until the point of submission um I don't believe there's any any false evidence it's simply that evidence is an ongoing process of updating and refreshing as we go um I think the only other thing to well two other things to say one is I think uh [member of the public] said that I had said that people were deliberately not using Commonplace to make it difficult for us I've never said that um the other thing I I have asked once if I have to ask again I will ask you to leave thank you the report simply

00:46:06Makes a factual statement that some people chose not to use Commonplace that's not saying that people deliberately did that to make it life difficult for us um I have read the pack thank you um the other point is um [member of the public] question um yes I I did believe and do believe that the Reg 19 plan was sound um but we obviously have to take on board the comments that we've received and review that position and that's the current position and as I say we'll be bringing a full feedback reports and making recommendations to members about how we proceed in due course. Thank you. Sorry this is now the third time that I've had to say, can we have a quiet from the public gallery please? Public speaking has now concluded. We're going to move on to the remainder of the meeting. If you've got further questions you are as always welcome to submit them by email.

00:47:06Thank you. Agenda item five, matters of urgency. I'm sorry Mr. I take real, real, real issue with the way that some members of the public choose to come and talk to us about some of these sites. We live here too. We give a damn about what happens in our district. No, because I didn't know where Ting Tong was, but I knew where EXMO20 was.

00:47:42Thank you very much, [member of the public]. Yes, that's correct. [member of the public], public speaking has now concluded.

00:48:04Thank you. We are going to move to the rest of the meeting. Agenda item five, there are no matters of urgency to be considered in the rest of the agenda today. [member of the public], it's not for committee to ask you questions during the committee meeting. You're a member of the public. There is no provision in the constitution for members of the public to ask, or I should say no provision in the constitution of which I am aware, for members of committee to ask members of the public questions.

00:48:40If that's incorrect, I'll be corrected by our planning solicitor, who's here to advise us on legal matters. We are now going to move on to Agenda Item 5.

00:48:54Thank you very much. Okay, unless you cease now, I'm going to adjourn the meeting and we'll stop until you've left. Agenda item five, matters of urgency, there are none. Agenda item six, confidential or exempt items, there are none. Which brings us to agenda item seven, community infrastructure levy bid recommendations on pages 12 to 17 of your agenda pack.

00:49:37Thank you, Chair. So this report talks you through the bids we received for community infrastructure levy funding and the process that we've gone through in terms of scoring those bids and consideration by the SEAL member working party. so you'll see from the report that the fund currently holds just over 12 million pounds we received 12 bids in total with a total value of over 17 million pounds so unfortunately we're not going to be able to support all of those bids and there's some difficult decisions to be made today in terms of which of these bids can be supported and which cannot you'll be aware that there were meetings of seal members working party earlier this year uh during january and february to consider these bids uh which were open to all members and a number of members around the table uh attended uh some of all of those sessions um so to just set out some context in terms of the bid scoring um you will see in section three of the report that uh total four scoring criteria

00:50:47Were used uh the first of which was about the infrastructure delivery plan and the priority that's given to each of the projects within that plan members will recall infrastructure delivery plan coming through the committee a number of years ago now and that sets out priorities one two and three for infrastructure projects needed to deliver the plan so a score was attributed accordingly with the highest score going to priority one projects which are those that are essential to deliver the plan the second criteria used was around need and looking at the current infrastructure issues consequences of not carrying out the project whether it supports the delivery of housing or economic development and also this issue about whether it delivers actual infrastructure which we'll come on to value for money was another criteria that was used so this was looking at what additional funding match funding was being put forward to ensure that we got best value for money out of the seal funds that were being used and deliverability was the final issue whether the project has planning permission the risks associated with it how those

00:51:50Are being managed time scales for delivery those sorts of issues and so each of the bids were scored on that basis which then gives a guide to the suitability for funding we're not suggesting that we simply go on scoring alone obviously there are other factors to be considered section four of the report talks about a number of principles that we used in terms of looking at allocating the funding um one of those was about feasibility studies you'll see uh when I come to the bids that a couple of the bids were specifically for feasibility work alone and not for not necessarily leading to the direct delivery of infrastructure um so a decision was made early on that it was felt that it wasn't appropriate necessarily to prioritize those bids given that seal funding should be used for the delivery of infrastructure and making it a physical uh delivery of infrastructure that's going to improve the quality of life of residents of the district and help to deliver the plan cost overruns was another issue that was quickly decided that the council should

00:52:53Not expose itself to future risk by underwriting any project cost overruns so we've literally taken the bids at face value in terms of the amounts that are being asked for and the intention would be to give funding to that amount and there to be no allowance for cost overruns and also looking at this issue about combining section 106 and SIL funding so we have accepted circumstances where section 106 funds are being used as match funding members will be aware changing the regulations in 2019 remove the cap on on pooling contributions from section 106 and SIL so that's now something that we can use there was also an early decision uh from the working group around trying to retain some money within the seal pot um so that we can be flexible in terms of future projects that might come forward and opportunities for match funding from government um so there was a a view taken that a sum of at least a million pounds should be retained for delivery of future projects so turning to the the bids that were received in section five you'll see um that those are all

00:54:00Listed out in terms of the scores and the projects themselves and the costs that were being sought if I just pick up on the main projects within that um Clyst meadow country park um station road broadcliffe SANGs I think members will be aware of this project which was reported to cabinets in may last year in terms of the essential need for this project in terms of delivering our requirements as a Habitat Regulations for Cranbrook development that's coming forward so this is a priority one project critical project in our infrastructure delivery plan which comprises a request for 3.383 million pounds of seal funding matched with 530,000 pounds of section 106 receipts and 200,000 pounds from council's capital program so as I say this was considered uh by cabinet on the 1st of may and there was um a resolution that uh the SANGs should be managed using an endowment model at that time but it was flagged that the endowment would need to be funded from sill and that this would equate to around 2 million pounds of sill funding uh so I

00:55:09Think this was the main topic of conversation for the working group was in terms of the um funding of the long-term maintenance of the SANGs there. An alternative proposal came forward at a future meeting whereby an annual contribution could be taken from SIL, which would be in the region of £15,000 to £30,000 per annum in terms of maintenance costs, but also there's a need for allowing for future capital replacement programmes.

00:55:38So there's an option there in terms of setting aside potentially £40,000 per annum as a total maintenance cost that also includes some allowance for a placement programme or an alternative option around an annual contribution of £25,000 per annum plus varying capital replacement costs as required. So there are options within there in terms of how that's maintained in the future, but I think the preference of the working group was that it be an annual contribution from SEAL rather than an endowment model.

00:56:11To avoid that up front £2 million cost. Bearing in mind that an endowment could also be set up at some point in the future if that was considered to be a better option at that time. So moving on then, another project mentioned at 5.2 is enhancing sport provision in Honerton. So this is to improve facilities for football and rugby, plus multi-sport provision in the community coordinated by the town council.

00:56:35So this is delivering new youth football facilities at Tower Hill. They're joining Honerton Golf Club. subject to planning commission and a new all-weather 11 by 11 3g football pitch at the community college and primary school in conjunction with the ted rag trust as well as drainage and floodlights the rugby club at all hallows so this is a project that's responding to needs identified in the playing pitch strategy of 2015 and the hollerton playing a sports pitch strategy I think it's actually called in 2016 so it includes a good level of match funding with section 106 monies being secured from the hayne lane development together with some monies coming forward from the football foundation and the tedrag trust and homington town council so the project scored highly on the basis that although it's only priority two in terms of the infrastructure delivery plan as I said supported by the plane pitch strategy is deliverable in the short term and provides very good levels of match funding so move on to Cranbrook multi-use park this was a Devon County Council project

00:57:41That involves the construction of 1.5 kilometer off-road route for walking wheeling and cycling linking between the cliff meadow country park and moss hay lane it's the last section of a multi-user route which is has largely been delivered by the developers but there's this missing section that's needed to create that link between Cranbrook and Exeter and provides an alternative means of travel between the two and linking up the various employment sites.

00:58:08It has planning permission already. The total project cost is just under £4.5 million with £1.8 million required from SIL. I think the working group felt that these costs were very high. We had a presentation from officers at Devon County Council regarding that and the understanding was that it's very challenging wet ground conditions and ecological issues on the site which are bumping up the project costs but it scores highly as a priority one project in terms of the idp meets the green agenda and active travel agenda it has planning permission and the ecc have 2.47 million pounds of funding to match the contribution from sill moving on to the school at tithe barn moss hayne which has been mentioned already this is another proposal from Devon County Council for a 210 place school to support the 900 dwelling developments there just under 50 of those homes have been built and has generated still proceeds of 2.375 million already completion of the development will take still revenue over the 4.5 million requested in this bid there is some history to this that

00:59:22Members might be aware, which led to, in the planning permission, the land being secured but no contribution due to the switching from Section 106 to SIL at that point in time. But there is a side agreement with Devon County Council that secures the land but requires that to be transferred to them by May 2027. So there are time constraints in terms of our ability to deliver this project.

00:59:46But again, it's a priority one project in the infrastructure delivery plan. There is a pressing need for the school. We've already heard about the burden it's placing on other schools in the area and the implications of that for residents and their children in terms of not being able to go to their first priority school and having to travel long distances to second, third or even fourth priorities.

01:00:07It could be brought forward relatively quickly. As I say, the land is secured and there's limited match funding is a problem, but projected development costs are also estimates at this time as well. so there are some risks associated with with that um london road Cranbrook improvements again this is a dcc project to deliver footway cycle enhancements and traffic calming on the london road um this is uh basically to deliver a fill in the gap between the sections that have been delivered by the relevant developers already or are coming forward as part of the expansion areas the priority being to uh link the cranberry farm pub to ingrams and leading to the cobdens and grange expansion areas um the intention here being fundamentally to prevent the cobden's expansion area becoming isolated in terms of uh footpath and cycle provision again this is a priority one project and needed to ensure safe and green travel options and is deliverable in the next two years um it didn't score so well on value for money though as there's limited match funding in

01:01:12This case. Just moving on then to the Pinho surgery extension this is an NHS project that's to expand the existing surgery at Pinho which while outside of the district and within Exeter is largely catering for the needs of patients within East Devon. It includes a two-story 216 square meter extension to create six new clinical rooms and additional admin space. um it's only a priority to project in the infrastructure delivery plan but it is needed to meet the demands of new development in the west end and west list um that has planning permission um the expansion to the surgery has planning permission as of january this year and is deliverable in the next two years um I think there's a a genuine need for the delivery of this as we've heard um the surgery is in a position where they are in danger of having to close their list later this year which would then remove provision essentially for GP provision for additional dwellings in that area which already have planning permission and are coming forward

01:02:17So a real fundamental problem there through negotiation the bid has been reduced down to 800,000 pounds this is on the basis of match funding coming forward through the NHS utilisation and modernisation fund which is a fund that's been made available while this process has been going on um so there is a a dual bid going in for that fund as we speak um I say the extension will enhance the value of the surgery which is a fundamentally a private business so this is a slightly unusual situation in terms of funding and you'll see in the report that there are mechanisms proposed to be put in place to ensure that this money is used for public benefit and remains to be used for public benefit and that it's not the the owners of that business and the surgery that benefit from this in any way and that can all be secured through the funding agreement as required the other bids mentioned in the reports are bids that are not successful so I won't major on those they're listed in section 6.2 you see the rejected bids there as

01:03:26I mentioned the feasibility studies relate to tipton primary school and the Devon metro rail scheme passing loop there are also bids that were not supported in terms of tipton st john playing field association for replacement pavilion stockland tennis club surface replacements and new path and and from the Devon cricket foundation these are the last three are projects that are not in the council's infrastructure delivery plan and as a result we're not considering those to be sufficiently high priorities as worthy as I'm sure they are in terms of delivering facilities for the community so the supported bids are listed at paragraph 6.3 in the report you'll see it's in the table form so you can see the bidder in the project the amount that's being sought and the conditions of the funding many of which I've mentioned already in terms of the ongoing maintenance costs for example at the Clyst meadow country park and the other key one in terms of terms and conditions is regard to the extension to pinhole surgery and as they ensuring that that

01:04:29Is money that's used for public benefit and is not otherwise beneficial to the business there so just turning back to uh the recommendations um you'll see there are four recommendations in this case uh the first being that members agree the recommendations of the seal member working party in respect to each seal bid received and rejected listed in the tables at paragraph 6.2 in terms of those rejected and those approved in paragraph 6.3 members are then asked to agree that all bidders who submitted rejected bids be advised the outcome of their bid and reference given to the reasons stated in the report then that members give delegated authority to myself in consultation with the director of governance to agree funding agreements with the successful bidders based on the conditions that are set out in the reports and finally that members advise cabinets that they do not agree to funding an endowment to cover the maintenance costs of the Sanget Station Road broad list as per cabinet's resolution of the 1st May 2024 and recommend that cabinet agree that these costs be funded through an annual contribution of £40,000 from

01:05:36SIL for the first three years after which these should be reviewed. As I said the endowment model could be set up at any time the working group felt that that was a matter dealt with best through an annual contribution from sill to start with um rather than make that commitment to two million pounds for the endowment at this stage uh so I make those recommendations to the committee thank you chair okay thank you very much mr Freeman um before we come then to uh all of the many people who I'm sure want to speak on this one um mr hunter could I just seek some advice very quickly conscious that we have some members who have declared ORIs so we'll have to leave as well as some non committee members who would like to speak would it be your advice that the folks who declared an ORI have to speak first now and then leave before non committee members or does it not matter as long as they leave before we come into committee really matter uh so long as everybody so long as anybody who wants to speak speaks and then leaves

01:06:42Before we get into the discussion and vote by the committee so I'd hear from everybody first let everybody listen to what everybody's got to say yeah and then they'd leave okay thank you mr hunter in which case then I'll do non-committee members first and then I'll come to um those who've declared an ori on committee and I'm going to go round in the order in which you are seated so Councillor Rylance first please thank you very much chair um so I'd like to speak to three stroke four items in in the list um and also recommendation four in the recommendations so I'll take them one by one if that's okay I'll do recommendation four and item 5.1 about Clyst meadows first but also linked to that um the cramp the so-called Cranbrook multi-use path which will bisect Clyst meadows um so obviously we have to deliver this as part of our commitments to to nature and to the Pebblebed Heaths um what I'm concerned about with recommendation four is what we're delivering is quite a complex environment it's going to be quite engineered

01:07:42At the start um and I very sincerely hope that brockley's parish council and East Devon district council are talking in very active talks about how its long-term future can be can be ensured in terms of maintenance and going forwards because we are delivering quite rightly a very beautifully complex environment that is going to need ongoing maintenance for a long time and will also be bisected by the path which is called the Cranbrook multi-use path which will be linking employment sites in next to Sky Park next to the airport with the west end of Cranbrook and also Brocklist so a crucial environment with a very valuable bit of infrastructure crossing it it's very crucial to get this right because that will improve the lives of many people and also enable active travel to work which at the moment is not it's it's a very long way around if you want to get to the little warehouse put it that way at the moment and I can tell you that because my ukrainian guests had to do it quite some time and walking down station road is no joke

01:08:42Um right so that's 5.1 recommendation four so I do hope we are really considering the long-term future of the SANGs and how it will be funded going forwards like you know taking on board what you said about the potential of an endowment fund coming forward at a later date it is really crucial that we get that right because um it is a very wet damp environment it's it's a water basically bless you right okay moving on to the next thing um which is 5.4 I think is that the is that the surgery it's the school okay yeah school right so um I will echo what Councillor Gent said earlier about the demographics of tithe barn um to me it is nonsensical that we don't yet have a primary school in tithe barn it is it is a development almost entirely composed of young families often with very young babies who even if they're toddling now will be at school in two years time and probably looking at applying for a school place next year um it it is absolutely

01:09:46Essential that we deliver this school in in the middle of tithe barn to allow active travel to school last year after school allocation places I was contacted by a number of families very distressed because they had been allocated schools they would never have thought of applying for school I had they hadn't even heard of a faith-based school that did not correspond to their family values at all and so it's very crucial that we are not sending children from tithe barn to schools where there are places when they could have a school on their doorstep as it has been promised for some time so very much looking forward to that school being delivered and not having to send children a very long way up a very main road at rush hour aged four I tried walking it with my teenage dogs and it was no fun whatsoever even getting to Monkerton school so you can imagine getting to a school it's a mile and a half further with a four-year-old not much fun and then lastly the pinhole surgery extension now I don't know

01:10:41If everybody's aware but pinhole surgery is actually pinhole and broadcliffe surgery It's a cross-border surgery on two sites. I know that Pinho and Brauclis surgery has been struggling with capacity for quite some time now, largely due to our expansion in the west end of East Devon. Now, a lot of our expansion zones are very much closer to the Pinho surgery than the Brauclis surgery. But if, as a patient, you apply for an appointment, you may be given either site.

01:11:08So although this site is actually technically an Exeter City Council area, it is in fact the same surgery and a lot of the capacity issues have been caused by our development on the edge of Exeter so I very much support that expansion going forwards notwithstanding what I said earlier about being a patient and the declaration I made. So thank you very much for your consideration for all these projects and please know that they are very much needed so when you come to vote on them it will be very gratefully received if you can vote favourably for them. Thank you.

01:11:43Thank you Councillor Violence Councillor Bethany Collins thank you I wanted to talk about the tips and Jordan primary school feasibility study which is 5.9 in the report I appreciate that obviously the bids were oversubscribed and that seemed like a natural way of deciding which bids would be taken forwards and I understand the rationale behind doing so however I just I think it's a real shame because tips and John primary school is a priority one and it there is a pressing need similar to obviously the Tidebarn school not to make a sort of comparison between the actual bids because they all have their merits but I just think it's a real shame that we're missing out on the potential to start this work because it is an established priority and it's been going on for a significant amount of time there has been a danger to life sort of warning with the school and the flooding and I think that as soon as we can get some work done to be able to identify a placement for this for the school and I would love that to stay in Tipton where

01:12:40Possible um which is why I think we need to get this work done on the three sites so I think it's a real shame that it's recommended for um refusal um so I would ask that potentially we could actually defer this decision as Councillor Ahern said earlier on um so that we can have further conversations with the dfe and to bring back um a bid that sort of satisfies satisfies this authority and satisfies the needs of the residents of tipton thank you thank you Councillor Collins Councillor Barlow thank you chair um I sit on the sill groups I don't know if I have to declare an interest for that or not um I can promise you these were debated not just because I was there but by all of the members and we took a lot of time getting people in to give us advice etc on this the only one that I would like to mention is the SANGs at broadcliffe um I totally support it but the two million pounds um for the endowment we felt and I felt certainly that was was just

01:13:40Not the right way to finance this you're being asked to save 40 000 I would suggest that you cut that to 25 000 at this time um because it's for the only for three years anyway and I whatever happens however much you give please make sure that it is ring fenced somehow for that project because with devolution coming out otherwise it's just money gonna go into a very big pot and I wonder where it will go thank you chair thank you Councillor Barlow and for your contributions to those meetings a lively discussion wasn't it on a number of occasions there Councillor Faithfull anything to add thank you chair reference Tipton primary school Tipton primary school in Tipton is included as part of our draft Local Plan and surely it needs to be assessed there is I would say having looked at the subject before quite a number of alternative sites in Tipton which are personally I think are better than the one that was put forward for our draft Local Plan and maybe it is

01:14:53Just the the way the system works but I think certainly a town council level there was questions over the amount of money and we'd like to have more clarification as to how this money is supposed to be this figure of six hundred thousand pounds is for this piece of work but I would support Councillor Ahern's comment whether it can be deferred on a slightly different subject reference of the Tithe Barn primary school as I recall Cranbrook wasn't allowed they weren't allowed to sell a house until Cranbrook first primary school was up and running and it seems a bit I don't know what you call it disappointing that so many houses being allowed to build in other places without a primary school up and running and functioning but there you go I tend to agree with you peter I think that was um a shall we say unintended consequence of the government's decision to introduce the community's infrastructure levy uh last decade but I'm sure mr Freeman will correct me later if I'm wrong on that one coming uh round then to our last

01:16:12Councillor Outside committee, Councillor Roy Collins. Any comments to make, please? Thank you, Chair. The football pitches proposed by Honolton Golf Club, well, that's been going on for more than 10 years. It seems there's no planning applications being considered by the planning committee. they've put in plants withdrawn them, put them in again there's a tremendous lot of opposition because it's in an area of outstanding natural beauty and there's no suitable roads to get there it's very narrow, very dangerous no buses it's a stupid site to be put in football pitches Do you know when this plan is likely to come before the planning committee?

01:17:16Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Collins. I think there we come across the separation of powers, if you will. This committee on this item is only concerned with the merits of the funding bid. Questions on the planning application, whether it's the right site, Those will be, as you suggest, for the planning process to handle separately. We wouldn't have any input on that directly ourselves. It's purely the merits of the funding bid that we're being asked to consider today.

01:17:52Okay, thank you, members outside of committee then. So I'm going to come to our two Devon County councillors who will have to leave the room in a moment. so is that a no from Councillor Hayward nothing to add or do you want to go after Jess okay Councillor Jess Bailey thank you thank you very much so what I'm really hoping that the committee will do today is defer the decision on Tipton School rather than rejecting it as per the officer's recommendation And just to be clear, normally with the feasibility studies, there would be some doubt about whether the funding is available for the project.

01:18:41Well, actually here, DfE funding is actually available to build the school. It's just a question of where. So I think in many ways there's less risk associated with this item, this project, than some of the others. Having said that, I support all of the other projects, but I just want to be clear that this one should be deferred pending further work. And I want to specifically focus on one aspect of the report, and that is the section that talks about the excessive requirements of the Department for Education.

01:19:21And I think this is reference to the requirement for three outline permissions for the three sites in Tipton. So I've contacted our MP about this and raised concerns about the excessive requirements. And I've requested that he organises a meeting with the Department of Education, Devon County Council, and Devon County Council discuss these requirements. But I think we need to allow some time for this to happen. And I'm concerned that if it's just rejected outright, then there's not going to be any time for that to happen.

01:19:54I've heard this morning that our MP is going to be contacting Department for Education. So please, please don't throw this out. Please defer it. It is a priority one project. There is the money for the school to be built. So please just keep it in the system. Put it on hold. Defer it. And then it will enable those discussions about the DEF's excessive requirements. to be looked at and then potentially brought back at a future point thank you thank you Councillor Bailey um Councillor Hayward anything to add thank you chair um just following on from Councillor Bailey's um sort of commentary on this this is another classic one of there's money available for it and you're really sort of chopping up how it's paid for arguably if Devon could pay for this feasibility work and then at the build stage ask us for six hundred thousand the amount of money is the same it's just in what order it's done so again I'm so new to Devon I've got to get my head around uh how these things work but I mean it's a almost a um a sequencing issue

01:21:18Rather than funding issue so perhaps again there could be a deferral of that um the point Councillor Collins uh raised uh Councillor Roy collins uh about the planning and you covered it is exactly true you know a lot of you're not going to go through all the the admin and the the the drama of a planning application the process unless you know you've got the funding so we so this is I think the right order you've got to show the commitment make the money available and then there's conditionality if they don't then go forwards it stays with us uh the final point is a question and and I support these and I'll have to leave the room and I'll come back to you on a another time about uh the issue of our oris where Devon's concerned um but it's questioned through you chair to mr Freeman or perhaps for yourself with these funding so say take for example the biggest lump of this 9.9 million to Devon the four and a half which is conditional on dcc

01:22:14Providing detailed costings. Just for clarity, at the point these are approved, do we as an authority give Devon four and a half and say, you sit on that, you look after that until you can deliver it? Or is the conditionality that you provide the evidence and at the point you can spend it, then we give it over? Because obviously there is an issue. And if Mr. Davey was here I'm sure he'd be quite unkeen to hand over four and a half million pounds where it couldn't be immediately spent whereas actually it can do some good for East Evans finances in a ring fence way. Thank you Chair. Thank you Councillor Hayward. I was going to move on to questions once we'd had all those comments anyway so Mr Freeman do you want to respond to that one quickly yes certainly so all of these proposed supported bids would be subject to funding agreement which would set out all of that but ordinarily we'd hold on to the funds until they're a point of being able to spend it basically okay thank you both we will take a moment for you

01:23:21To go on your holiday to the outside world we will indeed yes we won't forget about you Okay. Thank you very much then, members. We come to, are there any questions about the contents of the report, the method by which we've reached these recommendations, etc. Before we move to debate, I have Councillor Jung. chair yeah number of pupils at Tiptonton's John school I just wonder if we know how many because we're obviously we're providing a new school at the other location for 280 I don't believe Tipton's John has 280 and it's it's already there but I know there are very difficult situation with tipton being in floodplain but it it shows some balance if we know how many pupils there are there in a in a school that is continually being flooded um through chair I I don't have the numbers to hand um I know that there's issues around where the kids are coming from in terms of tipton school in though my understanding is a lot of the kids are traveling out from

01:24:57Archery St Mary to Tipton rather than are actually from Tipton St John so this issue around the location of the school as much as I appreciate it's a hub of the community and why the community want to retain it in the village there is that issue about where is it best placed and then I think that also brings in what size the school then becomes because obviously we're allocating quite significant growth at Archery St Mary in the new Local Plan which necessitates need for additional primary school provision in the town so then you get into issues well are we delivering a school at Tipton that's primarily for Tipton which my smaller or a larger school at Autry St Mary that's meeting that wider need so it's quite a complicated picture I think in terms of these different sites and what might be delivered where depending on what decisions are made which are outside of our control the bid that's in front of us is simply for 600,000 pounds to do feasibility work about three options

01:25:54In Tipton when the decision might be made to put it in Ottero St Mary anyway Thank you Mr Freeman I had Councillor Ingham and Councillor Faithfull I just want to understand on the network rail request on that it says here the reason for not supporting the bid feasibility study with no guarantee that the project will proceed did officers recommend that this bid was rejected to the research committee what's it called so did officers recommend that this was rejected or was this a decision taken by that working group against the advice of officers no it was a recommendation of officers not specifically on that bid but on both that and the tips and one that we felt we shouldn't be supporting bids are simply for you know additional reports and feasibility studies that we should be given the demands on the sill pots that we should be using the money to actually deliver physical infrastructure rather than than feasibility studies as a general principle so that was one of our earliest recommendations I think to the working group was to establish that as a principle from from the

01:27:39Starting point not that it's not important that this feasibility work is is done but that others should be funding that and then coming to us for funding potentially to physically deliver the project once there's clarity about what the project is and that it can be delivered otherwise we could potentially spending well in the case of network rail bid a million pounds on the feasibility study for piece of infrastructure that's never delivered and we could be spending that on delivering primary school or sports pitches and things that are actually going to make an immediate difference to people's lives just as a quick follow-up just to illuminate that a bit further am I right in remembering there was some concerns about whether the regulations allowed us to just spend on a feasibility study there was we did look into that so there isn't anything that precludes us from doing that but I think it's fair to say community infrastructure levy was established on the principle that it was funding the delivery of infrastructure obviously there will be occasions when obviously design work and feasibility work is is is needed and

01:28:42And can be part of those wider costs but generally it it would be as part of a wider bid for example the multi-purpose trail obviously there's further design work and costings that need to be done but the money is secured to deliver it they have a very good clear idea as to what that project is and some initial plans of it whereas you know the passing loop for example we don't know where that would go there's various initial stages work been done but it's it's a long way further behind than the other projects that are in this process where a lot more work has been done to progress them, to design them, to cost them out. So we have that greater certainty to know that the money will be largely going to their physical delivery, but yes, some of it would still be going to additional design work and feasibility work.

01:29:33Thank you, Chair. Just to follow up, when I joined this council, I remember a Councillor Hadley lobbying for this passing loop, and that was 30 years ago. So my question is, when do officers believe that they will be able to prioritise this as an infrastructure improvement? Because if we don't start soon, trains will no longer exist by the time we consider a passing loop here.

01:30:12Thank you, Chair. I think the problem with the passing loop is it's such a huge piece of infrastructure. It's tens of millions of pounds of funding that's going to be needed to go through all of the different stages of feasibility work that Network Rail will provide and then to deliver the project itself. I think I'm hearing in the region of sort of 50 million or something that's needed ultimately.

01:30:37So we could spend all of our silpop from now and probably another couple of decades on it if we wanted to. But fundamentally, it's a piece of national infrastructure. it's about national rail resilience into the southwest as well um and and so my feeling is this is a project that should be um primarily funded by central government and we should be potentially match funding as a local contribution um and so to to to use what might be seen as a reasonable local contribution of a million or so pounds on feasibility work without any certainty that's going to deliver anything is what concerns me if if network rail were coming to us and saying we've got this design project it's fully costed the government are going to put 45 million pounds or something we need an extra million or two from from local sources to to match fund it then it would be a very different proposition but at the moment we're still a long way from that um but I do recognize the importance of that projects and the delivery of half hour rail services across

01:31:43The district um would be a massive contribution to green travel agenda in the in the district and um encouraging uh green travel reducing car usage um in in key destinations along that route um but unfortunately the the funding that we could ever contribute to that would be a drop in the ocean it needs a commitment from government really Councillor Faithfull questions thank you chair well

01:32:42First I just wanted to point out I've had the conversations I've had reference tipton primary school if it stays in tipton we're talking about we were talking about 120 pupil school in the villages as a village school um but I'm also a little bit concerned that um it seems the conversations come coming from mr Freeman that we've already decided it's moving to Autry is this a question Councillor My initial thing was just answering the question that was asked before about 120 pupils how big the school was going to be in Tipton in its 120 pupil school it's a conversation I've had but I am you know how do we so here's a question for you if you want your question how we why are we having conversations suggesting the scoop school is already decided to go to Autry when we're at Devon County Council are having a feasibility study in Tipton through chair I certainly didn't mean to suggest that any decision had been made that it needs to go to Autry St Mary all I was saying that is the development proposed in Autry St Mary in our

01:33:55Local Plan will necessitate the need for additional primary school provision in Autry St Mary aside from whatever happens to the tips in St John's school obviously decisions about where it goes and how that provision is made is not for us today. Councillor Barlow. I just wonder if Mr Freeman could confirm, please, if there is only a population of 350 people in Tipton St. John. I don't know off the top of my head what the population of Tipton St. John is.

01:34:32I wouldn't be surprised if it was in that ballpark there. Thank you, Chair. a google search for the population of tipton st john does indeed say around 350 but I suspect that's possibly the same source as the one you've just googled in so um maybe we shouldn't take that as gospel any other questions on this report please before we move to debate no okay thank you very much then members um we have a what shut up apologies committee um I think uh I'm not going to say its name but um it heard me say something I didn't um I've completely lost my train of thought Councillor Fernley sent in something that she just wanted to be read out briefly before we move to the rest of debate yes it's a supporting statement um as ward member for broadclist I'm really pleased that the working party has supported four bids for my ward the provision of an off-road cycle path from station road broadclist to moss hayne is a key piece of the jigsaw puzzle for the

01:35:42Clyst valley trail active travel and disabled access from Cranbrook to Exeter and on to Exmouth or Dawlish. It will be a real asset for the area, improving the area for wildlife and aligning with Broadcliffe's neighbourhood plan. Cliffe's Meadows, the first sand to be built by EDDC, is in a great setting and will provide a rapidly growing area with a place to enjoy the countryside for health and well-being. It's also a place for dog walkers to go that will help protect the heath land in the district. The doctor's surgery will close its books in October if this money isn't forthcoming. This brings with it a catalogue of disaster which could cause the surgery to fail and even greater problems across the area for access to a GP and associated services.

01:36:36One of the most frequent things I am asked, when is Tithe Bar going to get a school? Many families moved to Dive Balm because that was promised in the sales literature. People had no idea that it would take seven years before funding was possible. Supporting this bid is one of the single most effective ways of driving down congestion and reducing the carbon footprint of the area. As children are driven from Clis St Mary to St Leonard's for their schooling, this bid heralds the start of a new community with a building for people to meeting and the possibilities for children and parents able to make friends close to where they live in a rapidly growing area it's fabulous seal is finally being used for what it's designed for I hope the committee will support all these bids and help a fledgling community have what is taken for granted across many places in the wider district thank you okay thank you wendy It wouldn't be the first time we've had developers embellishing the truth slightly, but there we go.

01:37:45Okay, into debate then, committee. You have, as a reminder, four recommendations in front of you to accept and reject on block, as is currently reflected in the report. So if we choose to differ, we'll need to amend those accordingly. Members, Councillor Jung.

01:38:04Thank you, Chair. first of all I'd like to thank the civil delivery group for deliberating on this I know it took a long time and also I'd like to thank the seal offices for their guidance on this my own now I would I support everything all the recommendations but I do have some concerns about Tipton primary school I'm very supportive of the school to be recited and I've been involved in some of the issues because it's in the of the flooding issue there I totally agree it it needs to be cited in Tipton as it is a valuable village asset and picking up on council Hayward's suggestion that we might defer the six hundred thousand that they want and tap it on to the construction costs to move this forward might might be an idea I don't if there's any solution to that so before I would make a recommendation to support all the proposals I just want to hear if we can do something with Tipton St John with either hold it in abeyance or have

01:39:37Further words with them the counter-council as we really need to urgently work together on this project thank you Thank You Councillor Jung I'll look to mr. Freeman for some thoughts on what we could do by way of a deferral if if anything um thank you chair I hadn't really thought in terms of deferring any of the decisions from today I mean obviously um while we haven't done um seal bids for some time before this process obviously the hope is to now get into a regular process if not an annual process of of taking bids and and assessing them so I mean there's obviously an opportunity for them to make a further bid the next time we run a bidding round although as jazz already asked me when would that be you know it's it's um it's taken us six months to get this far with this round so um you know doing this on an annual basis perhaps um isn't going to work but um certainly doing a lot more regularly than we have been um would work I'm concerned that I'm not clear on why we

01:40:55Would be deferring it and what's going to change between now and then and whether or not what would come back would be this same bid or a different bid it it feels like if we're seeking clarity from department of education on their requirements and all of this then this could turn into quite a different bid at which point is it a deferral of this bid or is it a new bid for the next round of funding and in any event um I haven't heard any sort of voices sort of saying that we should be funding feasibility studies so much as we should be rejigging the money so that dcc are funding the feasibility work and then we're potentially plugging any gap in terms of funding in terms of the physical delivery of the school so again that's a very different bid again isn't it um so um there's no precedent for deferring still bids but I don't see any reason why you can't if that's what you want to do as a committee but deferral to when and what does that

01:41:58Bid then look like when it does come back are we setting a precedent in terms of other bids that we're rejecting that might be able to come back with a stronger case we've kind of taken everything that we've got and came in through this bidding round to try and keep it an equal playing field. So my nervousness would be around setting a bit of a precedent and treating this one differently to other bids.

01:42:23Equally, Rail might come back and say that they'd change their bid if they had their time again, knowing what our recommendation now is. So I'd just ask members to give some thought to setting a precedent here and also the fact that this is an ongoing process this won't be the only opportunity for them to apply so bidding there will be other opportunities in the future thank you mr. Freeman I think that's created more questions than it has necessarily answers but thank you members any further speakers Councillor Thanks Jeff I am a bit concerned as you hope over recommendation one no and I I think what concerns me is the process by which you've gone through to arrive at the list.

01:43:16You've got to do something, and you've got to create a list. And I hear that you've opted for the ones that you can achieve. I understand that's a good reason, rather than the ones you can't. But are these the absolute priorities? that are the ones that are more difficult to deliver that you haven't even considered. That would be interesting to know. What I also don't like is recommendation three because what we're looking at in our terms, heavy money values and with some get-out clauses some reasoning that I don't necessarily agree with, let's say. On the Mosshane Tithe Barn Primary School, however desirable that is to have it conditional on Devon County Council providing more detailed costings. And we've got 4.5 million in the balance there and that's going to be down to two people not this committee I'm not happy with that and that's just one example because it's easy to understand because it's big bucks isn't it if it was my money I'd be furious if someone was asking for that sort of funding

01:44:58With this sort of logic and the risk involved in that approval. I'm not happy to share that. I don't know how others feel about that.

01:45:10Thank you. Okay, thank you, Councillor Ingham. Maybe you might want to think about how you'd want to amend three in particular. I think one is about which we do and don't approve, isn't it? So I think that's probably some more discussion there. but if you have any suggestions about um recommendation three open to hearing them Councillor Blakey thank you chair um I'm broadly in support of the recommendations as written but actually like Councillor Ingham I do have a bit of a concern um about the uh the funding for the tithe barn primary school um because it it's almost an open-ended check that we're being asked to write it we're thinking well it's roughly four and a half million um but um are we able to limit it to four and a half million and say that is absolutely it or are we going to be asked to commit to 75 percent of the cost of whatever the eventual cost we are absolutely limiting it to four and a half million absolutely right um in which case that is fine and the only other comment

01:46:21I would make is that um I think it's very disappointing about the fairly feeble level of financial support that the NHS are giving to providing one of its most important and basic functions in the funding of the pinhole surgery extension of the £350,000 contribution where the majority of the money being asked for from us I think is actually quite poor. I appreciate that we're being put into a position of having little choice here because it is an absolutely vital the service um but as ever um similar things are happening in groundwork obviously the nhs could do rather better but in conclusion support the proposals thank you Councillor Blakey I think the issue is that they have a budget of what was it 250 000 for capital works in all of Devon mr Freeman is that have I got that figure right yes from memory it is virtually nothing for um physical improvements to gp practices um in Devon I would say the situation improved while we were considering the bid because I think what perhaps isn't clear I think the initial bid was um was

01:47:33Higher and it's been reduced because of this money that's potentially available through this nhs utilization and modernization fund which I think is giving about 400 000 if it's successful so But we are still paying the majority of the cost, which is regrettable, to say the least. I say again, feeble. Indeed. Thank you, Councillor Blakey. Councillor Brian Bailey.

01:47:58Thank you, Chair. I agree with a lot of previous speakers. Tithe barn school is desperately needed. and I understand from canvassing with my wife and my friends during the election that this was top of residents' concern to get this school done. It's been a long time coming and if I read my notes correctly which I hope I have, this is going to be decided by the end of May otherwise the developer can take the land back, is that right?

01:48:38I think, Chief Chair, the transfer of the land has to happen by May 27. 27. I beg your pardon, I got the wrong year, I'm sorry. But even though, that's not a long time to go, so we need a bit of urgency in this to get it done and sorted out. Also, the other things in the walkway is essential because it's only going to be a matter of eight or ten years, which will soon fly by, that the southern side of Cranbrook will be developed, and then we'll be looking another school over there but we won't be in that position to do anything about it then because this organization won't exist anymore but it needs to be a priority and we need to plan ahead to hand over to whoever is going to be in the unitary authority to say look we've done our work on this and this is where we need to go and head them in the right direction but I'm in favor of of all of the report I think it's very good very thorough thank you very much chair thank you

01:49:38Councillor Brian bailey um Councillor Levine I forgot your name for a second there survive well really would like to propose that we accept all four recommendations please chair okay thank you Councillor Levine um before I just check in with Councillor And do we have a seconder for that proposal Councillor Blakey thank you Councillor Did you have any suggestions about um recommendation three no chair and that's because I've listened to the debate I'm in a minority of one I believe so therefore uh it seems logical if most people support those four recommendations you know it'll come out okay thank you Councillor The the only thing I was going to suggest is if members wished um I'm sure mr Freeman could live with um delegated authority in consultation with the director of governance and myself if committee felt it was necessary Mr. Freeman says he could live with it so if committee does feel that necessary I'll pause any comments Councillor Ingham thinks it's an improvement everybody else is is sort of not bothered I'll propose that as an amendment then from the chair

01:51:01Unless the proposer is happy to accept that it's in consultation with the director of governance and myself happy proposal and seconder yep okay um so we'll amend that um that recommendation slightly any further comments before we go to a vote on those recommendations Councillor Ingham just to say and remind members the logic of that you can either have yourself chair and Ed Freeman uh ratifying that through recommendations free or you can have um Ed Friedman and someone who is not closely versed in the ramifications of what we've just debated. It makes sense to have two people who hopefully understand what the hell is going on. I think it's a good idea.

01:51:53I'll take that as a resounding endorsement. Thank you Councillor Levine. Could I just add to the recommendations are thanks to the SEAL Working Group because they have done a tremendous piece of hard work thank you Councillor Levine I think we can probably note that in the minutes wendy rather than needing to take it as a recommendation um but thank you Councillor Levine point well made any further comments before we move to a vote on these recommendations then are members happy to take them uh in a block or do members wish to vote individually on them I sense block okay in which case then uh all those in favor of the recommendations as amended please one two three four five six seven yeah I count seven those against one and I'm assuming that's no abstentions there okay thank you very much members those are carried it's been an hour and 40 minutes so I'm just going to suggest we take a five minute comfort break and resume slightly more than five minutes perhaps 1150 just so it's an even number just just to say

02:05:27Members we are still waiting for uh mr hunter to join us okay thank you very much for waiting

02:06:48Members uh we will make a start on the rest of the agenda uh and that begins with agenda item eight uh southeast Devon wildlife joint habitat site mitigation strategy 2025 to 2030 a nice short report from [member of the public]. Thank you Chair. So members will be aware that since 2014 we've been working closely with Teambridge and Exeter councils on mitigating the impacts of development on the East Devon Pilbred Heaths, the Accessory and Dawlish Warren as protected habitats which it's been determined through previous work that development within 10 kilometres of those areas has an impact on those habitats in terms of recreational impacts from residential development within those areas.

02:07:43And so we developed in 2014 a mitigation strategy for addressing those impacts and established a joint habitat mitigations executive committee, which Councillor Jung here is the council's representative on. essentially what's before you today is what we're terming a new strategy but effectively it's an evolution of the previous strategy of mitigation measures for addressing those recreational impacts on those protected habitats and this is a joint piece of work that's been commissioned by the three authorities to ensure that we have adequate mitigation measures to address the impacts of development coming forward up to 2030 this being addressed on a rolling basis so effectively the strategy is made up of a mixture of on-site mitigation measures which are about management and access measures and activities we have a series of wardens that operate those and engage with site users and help to educate them in terms of how they can minimise their impacts and there's other measures that have been put in place to try and mitigate the measures the impacts of development on site and then there are off-site measures which are

02:09:00Effectively the suitable alternative natural green spaces which members will be aware of and the strategy has delivered a number of those primarily to key sites in teambridge and we hope through the emerging strategy we'll be delivering further things and hopefully some in East Devon in this period so say the new strategy covers five years from 2025 to 2030 and some of the key changes I suppose from the previous strategy is there's a realization I think of more staff resource being needed both in terms of wardens but also staff resource for SANGs and its delivery so that's been budgeted in to this new strategy which is going to lead to additional costs which will need to be passed on to developers we're in the process of calculating those and developing a new charging schedule which will again as is the current position come as a mixture of top slicing off sill and and also section 106 contributions to non-infrastructure elements so the next steps are that this strategy and this report is going to each of the three partner authorities seeking for the strategy to be agreed and adopted

02:10:12And this report has come to you for you to endorse that approach and make a recommendation to Cabinet that the site mitigation strategy be adopted.

02:10:26Thank you. Thank you, Mr Freeman. Questions, Councillor Barlow. Thank you, Chair. I just wondered if we have any idea as to what the price might be going up to per house.

02:10:38Thank you. Yes, but I don't have the figures in front of me, but I thought Councillor Barlow was asking in terms of the numbers for the cost for individual developments going forward, which I don't think is in the report.

02:11:03So that's something that's been worked on at the moment. It is going to go up fairly significantly from where it currently is. But we obviously need to look at how that's done in terms of the split between SIL and what we're currently doing through Section 111 agreements under the Local Government Act, which was largely about the pooling restrictions on the 106, which have now gone. So we also need to review how we're collecting those as well.

02:11:30So that's not something that's before you today. I think we'll need to bring that through as a separate item as a later date. Councillor Barlow? I just want to say I presume the SIL contribution wouldn't go up that much for the simple reason the SIL is going up anyway. The amount we get for SIL goes up with inflation, so the percentage should stay the same. I just am concerned that if it goes up too much, it's just another reason for developers not to give us social housing.

02:12:01Well, through you, Chair, we need to review our SIL charging schedule anyway. Councillor Barlow is correct. It goes up annually because it's index-linked, but we also need to review that in light of the work we're doing on the new Local Plan and the infrastructure delivery plan all needs to feed into that with a review of the seal charging schedule. So, as I say, we need to bring a future report in terms of that.

02:12:29But I think actually, sorry, what Councillor Jung's referring to is the mitigation strategy itself refers to some of the figures within that. so that there is an indication within there which the chair is kindly handing over to me so yeah the costs per dwelling range from £852 for the accessory only to £977 for accessory in DoorDish Warren but that's the SAM measures only that's the on-site costs that's not the SANGs costs as well so that's only part of the picture so this is why I say we need to bring the full picture to you at a future meeting but it is going up fairly substantially okay thank you any further questions on this paper please no okay in which case we move to debate and I will move the recommendation as written from the chair just with good order are there any councillors that wish to speak please Councillor Ingham I think that's fair enough, Chair, because you either agree with it in principle or you don't.

02:13:47It's been going on a fair while, and you either think the process is apposite or not. Let's go for it. Indeed. Thank you, Councillor Hingham. Unless there are any further hands, then? No? Okay. In which case, I'll take us to a vote on the recommendation as written in the paper, please. All those members in favour, please. I think that's seven oh yes eight because Councillor Hayward's back yes that's right eight okay those against please one and those abstaining would be none okay thank you members that recommendation is carried which brings us then to agenda item nine at the East Devon Local Plan timetable update Mr Freeman thank you chair so members will be aware that we ran a regulation 19 consultation earlier this year it's concluded at the end of march um on the new Local Plan um and the intention had been to do a two-stage regulation 19 consultation so that was stage one on the plan itself the intention was to have a second round of consultation that would start either later this month or early next month on essentially

02:15:03The new community so the master plan work that's going on on the new community and some of the supporting evidence on the new community and this report sort of reflecting on that timetable and thinking that actually that's not going to work as things stand so there's there's a couple of reasons for that one is as the report notes we've had a lot of comments come back through the consultation on Local Plan and a number of concerns raised particularly by statutory bodies in relation to some of the evidence that's currently missing so there's mentioned the report about Environment Agency comments about the water cycle study which wasn't available for the consultation and still isn't completed unfortunately but we are making progress slowly they've also raised some concerns about the strategic flood risk assessment level two as some of the late addition sites hadn't been through the stage two process so this comes back to what I was saying earlier in response to some of the public questions about the evidence for any Local Plan is always a constant evolving process as the plan develops and you develop

02:16:12The evidence alongside and so that there were some some what we considered minor gaps in the evidence but some of the consultees have considered those to be more significant than perhaps we felt they were um and so um and and that was reflected in say the comments from the environment agency but also Natural England in terms of habitat mitigations issues um I think it was flagged up in the um the habitat uh assessments about the air quality impacts on the Pebblebed Heaths and the needs for mitigation strategy for that that work has been commissioned but we obviously don't have that yet um and that's obviously raising concerns from Natural England's perspective as well um so in terms of the timetable um well we could potentially proceed and add that evidence into the the process of potentially um building up issues so we say at the examination stage whereas it would be much better to have a position an agreed um position where hopefully these statutory consultees such as environment agency Natural England are happy with the plan at the point of submission and we can have a statement

02:17:21A common ground with them that sets that out rather than potentially have um these issues that are still sat there at that point um the other issue is in relation to the new community work um so obviously this is an extremely complex piece of work there were some workshops week before last um and and there's still uh while the master plan is developing there's still further work that that needs to be done on that um there's obviously outstanding questions in terms of delivery models and how that new community and and that revision and master plan for that new community that's emerging would be delivered um and announcements with regard to the government's new towns program to be made hopefully early summer um which could have a bearing on this as well um and the report mentions a report that's being planned for july cabinet that looks at delivery vehicles in terms of the new community as well so there's a whole narrative I think that goes with the master plan in terms of how we would envisage as a council delivering that master plan and and potentially

02:18:26The support from from government and other sources that might enable that alongside some of the technical work as I say there's further work on the master plan to be done there's further transport modeling and assessment work being undertaken at the moment and discussions taking place with Devon County Council as a highway authority and national highways in relation to that um and that work um is not going to be completed in time for a consultation in june either so um my current uh view is that uh we need to review the timetable in terms of Local Plan production members will be aware the critical thing in terms of the transitional arrangements in the the new national planning policy framework was that we got the interreg 19 stage by I think it was the 12th of March which obviously we've done the other critical thing is to submit the plan for examination within 18 months of the new NPPF which came out just before Christmas so it does just about leave us enough time to do this further work in terms of the evidence for the Local Plan

02:19:31Itself this work on the new community in terms of completing the master plan some of the evidence that sits behind that and work on delivery vehicles to have a clear approach that we can present in the second Reg 19 consultation but to run that consultation after the summer holidays so probably starting in october with the papers coming through this committee in september we can then run that for a six-week consultation to finish well before christmas uh report back the findings of that consultation early next year and then still submit the plan within the 18 months of the new NPPF and therefore comply with the transitional arrangements which then avoids us having to address the increased housing numbers in the new standard method so that's the current thinking in terms of the timetable um this report is is seeking members agreement to that as a general approach and then we would work that up into a new local development scheme which is the formal timetable which could then come to your next meeting and then that would need to go to

02:20:41Council ultimately to be agreed as as the new approach but I feel that's the the best way forward in terms of addressing the concerns that are coming through the consultation so it gives us an opportunity to address those in the second Reg 19 consultation in terms of the issues highlighted in terms of the Local Plan that we've already consulted on and also presenting a clearer narrative and framework for the delivery of the second new community with a fully consulted on an engaged master plan and a narrative about the delivery vehicle as to how we would deliver that approach um so that's the the proposal um and and the recommendation is that members endorse that approach okay thank you mr Freeman uh questions first then I'll start outside of committee with uh we'll start with Councillor Faithfull this time um thank you chair I'm not sure if I wasn't listening properly but will there be a basic feedback from the consultation or do we have to wait for the whole combined everything together one there there will be feedback from regulation 19a as we've been calling it yes they

02:22:07Have we got some sort of how long ish we get the initial response I think that's what some of the public were concerned about future I mean I think in terms of um summarizing the feedback that we've received um we could probably bring a summary of that to the next meeting I think the the questions that inevitably arise from that is what is officers will be proposed that we do in terms of responding to that which might take a bit bit longer I actually have a meeting with the team tomorrow to sort of go through that now that they've fully reviewed the responses so be in a better position to sort of discuss that with with the chair and decide how we want to deal with that um if if we're bringing a report that sort of a you said this is what we propose we do I think that would take a bit longer um but just in terms of an initial summary of the feedback we've received um we could certainly bring back to

02:23:08The next meeting my only concern is that it probably raises lots of questions without us necessarily having the answers so there's a bit of a sequencing thing there that we need to think through and discuss um but certainly um in the next next couple of months thank you chair um it says in the 1200 individuals uh replied uh most use the online portal however substantial number chose not to can you tell me what is a substantial number um and also also our five-year housing land supply um it's obviously last time's 2.96 years I think or something from memory um I just wonder are we still confident that we are going to be able to get to that by the time we the plan is adopted because I believe that's part that it has to be at five years for it to be adopted is that correct thank you so uh in terms of the first question I don't know off the top of my head exactly what proportion used Commonplace I think um perhaps part of the issue was that

02:24:19Um the way we posed the questions on Commonplace were very much about um which we have to do I would stress in terms of a Reg 19 consultation is ask questions about do you believe the plan is sound or not and a lot of people I think didn't necessarily want to answer that question and they just wanted to tell us what they thought of the plan. So they didn't necessarily understand the nature of the consultation, submitted their comments through other means that didn't mean they needed to answer that question.

02:24:52The other thing is, I think, in a lot of cases, you've got people like developers who are promoting a particular site who want to submit their master plan for the site or viability reports and things, which again isn't what we were specifically asking for that the consultation was specifically asking for comments about the soundness of the plan um and I think it's a requirement of the regulations that we do it like that but it inevitably causes some confusion uh and doesn't enable people to say what they want to say so I don't know that it's necessarily a failing of Commonplace so much as a failing of the legislation and how we have to to run that consultation but it's something we can look at and see what we can learn from that in terms of the second regulation 19 consultation um in terms of five-year land supply yeah we do need to have a five-year housing land supply at the point of adoption um we're monitoring that position you're right at last count it was at 2.97 years um but there are consents working through well applications

02:25:54Running through the system in terms of applications on sites that are uh proposed to be allocated in the Reg 19 plan that we'll be asking our planning committee to consider over the coming meetings and we'll keep monitoring that position and stand by the previous advice I gave to you and to the planning committee that we do need to bolster our supplier position and that fundamentally needs to be done through granting consents so that's a work in progress shall we say in terms of bolster in that position I just wonder if you could supply after the meeting just the number of people who did it not online the substantial number thank you Councillor Roy collins thank you chair I feel that the public have not been given the opportunity to comment on these plans in person, you've not had any exhibitions in any towns or public meetings where a lot of people, they feel unable to write letters and things or do emails and that. I think they would have appreciated the opportunity to come here and speak. You had quite a lot

02:27:20Of meetings that you cancelled, which that denied the public the chance. And three minutes is nothing near enough. You proved that this morning with the speakers. They need at least five, ten minutes, I feel. And myself, I've had quite a lot of trouble with my iPad. I've had to come in here perhaps three or four times a month, and I've had trouble this morning. This IPA has not worked since Thursday.

02:27:52I've been in there next door and they still haven't got it right. But I do feel that the council should have promoted their meetings better. There's been nothing in the newspapers. I've scanned the newspapers and I've seen nothing about this strategic planning that people can send in their comments. Thank you.

02:28:17Thank you, Councillor Collins. Coming into committee, then questions on this paper, please. I saw Geoff's hand just first. uh 3.3.2 uh water cycle study um we've um got response back um I I don't know what form that response is in and how quickly it's going to be to amalgamate that response from southwest water into a report so um can we have some more meat on that please um so yes as the report notes we have unfortunately had to wait over six months for data from southwest water to inform the study this is following a meeting we had with the consultants and the southwest water last summer um I think some of that data is helpful uh some of it is not what we were asking for um so there's further work needed um I have a meeting or trying to set up a meeting with the consultants to to review this and see how we draw this to a conclusion um conscious that it has been going on for a long time um and that we need to have some clarity I

02:29:41Suppose about um the final findings of the water cycle study particularly in terms of wastewater water infrastructure and I think that's where some of the data is currently lacking is on that area so continue to work with the consultants to try and bring that to a conclusion obviously if you know members agree the new timetable then there'll be an absolute final date of needing to bring that to members before that second round of Reg 19 consultation but really we want it well before then to give members an opportunity to to review that and debate that before we get into that mindful that it's a particularly controversial issue and a particularly important issue for for the impacts of development in in the plan on the environment thank you mr Freeman uh Councillor Him. Thank you, Chair. I understand [member of the public] request and need to amend his timetable schedule to make sure he can achieve all the things he's trying to. I certainly understand his need for flexibility and we support that some things have to speed up

02:31:01Therefore other things are going to slow down aren't they and he has to balance the books on how he achieves that but I'd like to know if we can if he's prepared to give us if not a commitment, a target date for that end point say the 1st of June 2026 when he can say right that's everything done we're ready to go now is that possible? Councillor You mean in terms of the date for submission of the plan?

02:31:38Well it will have to be at or around the start of June because the 18 months of the NPPF being published just before Christmas is an absolute critical date if we don't hit that then we can't comply with the transitional arrangements and we'd have to increase our housing numbers by over 25%. So more or less you're saying yes, first of June or thereabouts? No, or thereabouts, yeah.

02:32:06I mean, as I say, we'll bring a local development scheme through which will have a more detailed timescale than we've got in this report. But yes, I mean, we will need to be submitting to the inspection the first half of next year.

02:32:19Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Ingham. I think the deadline in law is the 12th of June, 2026, 18 months after the new MPPF, which was on December the 12th, 24. Any further questions? Councillor Brian Bailey.

02:32:38Thank you, Chair. Many of the residents of Exmouth, especially those that are relatively close to the Pebblehead East, have, to quote Mr Barlow, a substantial number, whatever that may be, a considerable amount have complained that they didn't think that the first round of consultation was adequate, to quote them. I have a tendency to agree. I'm sure they would welcome a 19A consultation, and I'm sure they would robustly take part in it.

02:33:16So is there a start date for this at all, please? The Regulation 19A consultation has already happened. So that was the one that we opened in, I want to say, mid-March and closed six weeks later. It started in February and closed at the end of March. but yes that included the consultation on the sites I think you're referring to in in exmo and so obviously we're reviewing the comments that we've received back and we'll be reporting them to the committee in due course I think much of the issue was in relation to exmo's 20 site which the public speakers were referring to I think some of the confusion is because while we did consult on that site at regulation 18 stage it was at that time a rejected site based on officers' assessments and you recall that it was the committee that determined that you wanted to include it as an allocation in the plan and so I think a lot of people reviewing that Regulation 18 consultation didn't take it seriously as an allocation because it was

02:34:20At that time a rejected allocation and then was surprised that that situation changed but obviously the Regulation 19A consultation makes that clear that it was a proposed allocation in the plan that then enables people to comment on it in that context so it will be interesting to see what comments we've received and we can report them to you in due course to review thank you may I just say the reason for the concern is I have a copy of a letter here from the Woodland Trust and they've done some research into this and they are suggesting that that area we're talking about is 200 years old it's been um a woodland area and there are also several trees on that site that are over 400 years old and this is why they're along with myself and others uh very concerned about the situation thank you very much thank you Councillor Bailey um and I'm sure issues like that would be picked up if and when it came to a planning application And I know that the plans that we've seen from the promoters of the site actually don't involve developing out the very northern bits, which are the wooded bits.

02:35:34But as I say, a matter for future consideration. Councillor Jung, question? Just to come back on the issue that Councillor Bailey has just mentioned about ancient trees in that area of Exmouth. If you notice, Hexmouth is difficult to expand because they're surrounded by sea on two sides, an estuary on another side, so they can only expand one way. That area, all of that out, beyond the built-up area now, there are ancient trees going up to the common no matter which way you go.

02:36:15So it no there are going to be issues with trees no matter which development you go in eczema I didn't hear a question but there we go any further questions on this paper please no okay in which case we move to debate then and again for good order I'm going to move this from the chair now I think it I I don't think we really have a huge amount of choice, to be honest.

02:36:48But that's my view. Members, does anybody wish to speak? No? Okay. In which case, we will move straight to a vote on the recommendation as stated in your papers then, please, members. All those in favor? That's unanimous, I think. Okay.

02:37:10Thank you very much, members. Which brings us to the last item on our agenda today, agenda item 10, at the Planning and Infrastructure Bill update. Mr Freeman. Excuse me.

02:37:24Thank you, Chair. So this report is really for members' information, just to acknowledge that the Planning and Infrastructure Bill was introduced to Parliament on the 11th of March and is currently going through the committee stage, as I understand it. And there are some fairly key proposals within that bill in relation to the planning legislation and how that would be administered by this council in the future so worth members being aware of this one of the things that's within that is a national scheme of delegation which is proposed that would set out the types of planning applications that can be determined in the delegated powers by planning officers and those which should be considered by planning committee there hasn't previously been a national scheme of delegation obviously members would be where we have a local one that's within our constitution so this potentially would trump that I suppose as a national scheme of delegation and set out what we have to do in terms of that it also talks about training for members of planning committees potentially looking at the constitution of

02:38:32Those committees the number of members sat on them and things like that so various implications for us there potentially it also talks about planning application fee setting so there's talk about local fee setting in terms of charging which has been talked about before and we did quite a lot of work on that historically I think the charges for householder and minor developments have been way below the actual cost of delivering that service the government recently put up the the fees for household applications but they doubled it um so um be interesting to see what impact that has in terms of budgets but obviously um they're moving towards a potential opportunity for local fee setting on a cost recovery basis uh and I think potentially with a sort of default baseline national fee to sort of tide us over and until then uh bearing in mind there's a lot of work that would need to be done in terms of setting up our own fees um also I think uh they have um consulted on on what that basis should should be as to what costs can be recovered and

02:39:46I think they've come to the view that it should be recovery of costs associated with dealing with applications only and not necessarily those costs involved in plan making so writing the Local Plan or planning enforcement and other things like that um so it's not going to be an opportunity necessary to recover the total cost of the service but potentially a substantial part of those it talks about strategic planning on and development of the spatial development strategies across the larger geographic areas and just the current districts so that would be potentially upon the county combined county authority area and be their responsibility with us no doubt feeding into that process um excuse me and then there's measures around nature recovery so it looks at the formation of a nature restoration fund to enable a more strategic approach to habitat mitigation so this is not dissimilar to some of the things that we talked about in terms of our own um habitat mitigation board across ourselves Exeter and teambridge but looking at those sorts of measures on a national scale um and being administered by natural

02:40:59England so there could be some quite significant implications for the work that we've already been doing in terms of the accessory and Pebblebed Heaths in terms of that and a potential role or greater role for Natural England in terms of that if that were to move forward um the other things that are noted um around compulsory purchase powers and proposed changes to that um within the bill and measures around development corporations and establishment of those both of which could be measures that could be helpful in terms of the delivery of the second new community that we mentioned earlier in the meeting as well so worth watching what happens in terms of those changes as it moves through the committee stage in the second reading through through parliament but hopefully useful for members information to see that as I say this is for members to note at this stage and we'll be going towards forward to cabinet on the 4th of June for their consideration as well thank you okay thank you mr. Freeman and indeed

02:42:03For writing the report as I think this was one that I asked you to bring rather than that was in the forward plan and because the changes that as I've taken to calling it the the PIB are proposing to make to the planning system are in my view really really significant um and not all positive questions starting outside committee Councillor Faithfull thank you chair just looking at these answers to the questions who decided what the answers should be is it officers or sorry which answers to what questions Well, I'm looking at this consultation, as discussed, the response to the working paper.

02:42:56Through you, Chair, there was a couple of working papers that were published in advance of the bill and what we've included in the appendices of the responses that were sent in. So the Constitution gives delegated authority to myself to respond to national consultations. do tend to when they are significant ones bring them through the committee so when there have been changes to the national planning policy framework for example tended to bring them through through the committee for members endorsement of the response but there's been so many recently and in this case they were simply working papers that we drafted a response as officers and we did share and agree that with with the chair and also in the case of the nature recovery one with Councillor Jung as the relevant portfolio holder as well so there was member oversight of those responses so where it's saying that we agree that the planning committee should be a small one of say five to seven that was not a council comment is an officer's comment is that correct yes the response was was drafted by officers and shared in that case with with the

02:44:14Chair before submission um I think I haven't got the reference in front of me but I I think it was in response to a question largely about sort of strategic applications uh major developments going to committee um and I think there's an issue in terms of um uh sort of what the I mean it's difficult without the the working paper in front of you which is on the hyperlink but I think what what the the government was sort of saying is is their benefit in having smaller committees made up of uh members with a greater skill set and more training uh to deal with more strategic applications um and I think what we were saying as officers that there may be some some benefit to that approach uh acknowledging the greater training requirements and the burden that places on members, particularly on large strategic applications.

02:45:07But to be clear, that's targeted committees for specific applications. That's not this authority saying, we think we should cut the size of the planning committee in half. That's not what this question is asking about. Councillor Bryan-Bailey, then Councillor Brown.

02:45:27Thank you, Chair. Well, I'm wondering if this is going to allegedly streamline the situation. I imagine that's what's coming from the government. There would be less response from councillors, less response in a negative way as far as developers are concerned. I feel that this will be perhaps denying the public the opportunity they have to speak. At the moment, they do have an opportunity to speak. Whether if this system was adopted, which it may or may not be um it's going to bog down a lot of offices with especially something contentious they're going to be having emails coming from every direction every time of day um and I think overall I think it's going to undermine the democratic process and I can't see myself in favor at all chair thank you very much wasn't a question brian but I think I agree with every word you've just said.

02:46:35Well, I'm very pleased to hear it, Chair. Thank you. Any further questions, then? Bearing in mind this report is just for noting today. Councillor – sorry, Councillor Brown. I'll let you off. You know, speaking to a number of other councils, we've got quite a large planning committee. In a number of them, there are only 11. which makes more sense because it's a balance isn't it you can always get a result with 11 you cannot get a result with 16 sometimes it goes as we've been found recently down to the chairman in that case is a bit indecisive unfortunately equally I think we've had a decision come down to the chairman at strategic planning during my tenure over the last 12 months so you know a an odd number of committee places doesn't always guarantee a decision Councillor Ingham I notice in the report that says chair that perhaps we've got to reconsider our constitution but aren't we as lemmings going to be jumping over the cliff in a short period of time and that would be a waste of time and it's someone else's

02:47:52Problem I think that's only if they were to put this into law before we were to be absorbed by unitary Councillor Collins question this isn't really anything new we had something very similar in the late 60s early 70s called the community land act when the government had a commission and they went around looking for sites for housing and industry in East Avon they found Souton for industry I know a lady whose father's farm there that was confiscated very little money was paid for the farm, in Horneton we have Ottermore Lane which was John Sluggett's land, that was taken and to affect me personally my wife they had their farm taken which is where Hayden's Park is to and Avenue, Mesadon and the doctor's surgery that was taken my father-in-law died in 1972 he never had a will unfortunately the land commission had put planning permission on the land so he didn't have a will and it was valued as building land and they had to sell it.

02:49:3616th century farmhouse was knocked down and I feel this act is centralisation by government. Obviously it's going to come in when we have a new unitary authority in Devon and it's just another way of government imposing and all local objections won't stand a chance, especially if you have far less councillors involved.

02:50:04Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Collins. And for the history lesson, I hadn't heard of the Community Land Act, but I will look forward to reading up on it. Any further questions then, or are we happy to note this report? counselling and then again we can we can do comments I wasn't sensing that any well I I was sensing that actually most of them had already been made but we can go to comments now Councillor Jung then counselling him as just been mentioned this seems to be centralization I've got great concerns on a number of issues uh Natural England taking over control of habitat mitigation um we we can't get answers out of them now they're coaling staff at the moment um and they they want to take over the world well sorry the uk um um habitat mitigation we do really well here um local knowledge local stakeholders and um some time ago we we had um the localism act this seems to be in the opposite direction so um I I would like to have more reaction back to government from this from this

02:51:32Council rather than um no so rather than noting it I think we need to do some action thank you I tend to agree Jeff which is why I've asked it to go to cabinet as well so that we can take action at a corporate level rather than just recommending that we do something as SPC so that is very much my intention. Councillor Ingham. Thank you Chair. I think this bill embraces all the environmental expediency we would expect from national government at this time it's it backstops for their inadequacies and their poor strategic thinking on a national level and we're not the only district that will pay the price for this and it's just a great shame to see this happen in the name of democracy, which it is not. Thank you, Chair.

02:52:38Well put, Councillor Ingham. Councillor Hayward. I'm very minded to actually agree with Councillor Ingham. It isn't, and it's tricky to say this without coming across in hindsight as a criticism of the principle of delegation. The undermining principle of a planning committee is that it allows a panel of our peers to consider things um and as an officer myself I'm often quite loathe to um do things under delegated authority just because it's expedient actually I prefer the democratic way even though it makes more work for me because that's the nature of why we do these things um um the issues about the environment in this bill I mean I'm I recall when it it came out um there was headlines you know y'all you know damn bats damn noots frogs everything else just pay a levy and it'll all be a fine that doesn't work you know these laws are here for a reason and I have grave concerns about this today I'm happy to note it because it's the start of a process I look forward to uh the cabinet debate

02:53:49And I don't want to predetermine myself there um but yeah I have I have grave reservations about this in the interest of expediency and you know helping things chug along and helping to build build build I think it will backfire in the long run but we'll leave that conversation to cabinet chair thank you sorry chat I just meant to say I wanted to thank Councillor Collins for reminding us how history keeps repeating itself and that national government if they don't get their way they stamp that way what a disappointment that you know 50 years later the same thing happens indeed I think when I was growing up I was promised that history had ended um here we here we are again does anybody wish to make any specific recommendations uh on this paper or are we happy to leave uh a robust hopefully uh response to cabinet to formulate okay uh in which case then I think we note that report. Mr. Hunter, do you need a vote on that one or are you happy?

02:55:05Okay, in which case I'll move from the chair then that we, I'll move from the chair the recommendation as written in the paper that we note the update from Mr. Freeman. All those in favour, please. That's carried unanimously. Thank you very much, members, and see you in July.