Strategic Planning Committee, 20 September 2024

00:05:13Okay, good morning everyone. First up, a health and safety announcement. There's no fire alarm drill anticipated today, so if the alarm sounds, please leave the building through the nearest fire exit by following the signs above the doors. Make your way to the rear of the car park and wait there until you are told it is safe to return. And lastly, please make sure all phones are either muted or switched off.

00:05:37To start the meeting then, good morning everyone and welcome to this Strategic Planning Committee meeting on Friday the 20th of September 2024. I'm your Chair, Councillor Todd Olive. To my right is Vice Chair, Councillor Mike Howe. Supporting officers present are Ed Freeman, Assistant Director, Planning, Strategy and Development Management. On the other side, Matt Dickens, Planning Policy Manager. Back to the left, Damian Hunter, planning solicitor, and right down the end, last but by no means least, Wendy Harris, our Democratic Services Officer.

00:06:09Can I remind everyone present that this meeting is audio recorded for subsequent publication on the Council's website, so please can members and officers making a contribution to the meeting, please make sure to use a microphone or your comments will not be recorded. We will now start the meeting by doing a roll call of committee members, including any declarations of interest, Wendy.

00:06:30Thank you, Chair. I'll start with yourself, Councillor Olive. Present and no declarations.

00:06:36Thank you, Councillor Howe, Vice-Chair. Present and, again, no declarations. Thank you, Councillor Brian Bailey. Present, finally, no declarations.

00:06:48Thank you. Councillor Jess Bailey, we haven't had, not yet. Okay, Councillor Blakey. Present, no declarations, thanks.

00:06:56Thank you. Councillor Colin Brown. Present, Wendy, but I am the ward member for Dunk as well. Okay, we don't need to record that as a declaration. Councillor Bethany Collins will be joining us for the afternoon session. Councillor Davey. Present, no declarations.

00:07:20Thank you. Councillor Fernley. Present and no declarations. Thank you. Councillor Hayward. present and an effects nri declaration in respect for gender item 8 in respect of my employment with accidents the town council thank you Councillor Jung present and no declarations thank you thank you Councillor Ledger present and no declarations other than I think everyone's been lobbied on pretty much every side thank you Councillor Levine present no declarations and Councillor Parr thank you okay thank you Wendy I'm Brian are

00:08:27You logged into your microphone that's that's come up as Kevin for members of the audience present we have a new microphone system which Strategic Planning Committee is trialing in September so that there may be a few teething problems over the course of the day please do bear with us I think we're all getting used to it still Councillor Bailey um as Councillor Ledger has said just worth noting that I think all members have received quite extensive um lobbying emails over a variety of sites all over the agenda sorry chair I forgot to say about non-committee members um non-committee members if you do have a declaration could you make your way over to the public speaking microphone just to um let me know what they are if not we'll move on okay thank you wendy uh agenda item one apologies I have Councillor Collins for this morning and Councillor Ingham are there any others no no others oh yes sorry Councillor Jess Bailey for this morning as well yes that's right okay agenda item 2 declaration of interest that's done

00:09:49Agenda item 3 I don't believe we have anyone registered for the general public speaking slot no okay and then not for the general one you've registered for the sites I must admit I didn't acknowledge that in the reply email that I sent you I just said about the the sites that you're on about that you wanted to speak on I think I asked you what you wanted to speak about and I didn't get a response if you'd like to stand up to the public speaking microphone and Councillor Collins will hear you for the three minutes.

00:11:01Thank you, Chair. I've been interested in planning all my life. I've got the Honnerton report here, and that was first published in 1968 and revised in 1972. And then I've got the Honnerton plan for 1982-83, and I've got several more at home. So, it does concern me an awful lot about the world situation regarding food supplies, the loss of land. We've lost, in the world now, there's lots of forests being cut down, particularly in Brazil, Borneo, acres and acres of forest land.

00:11:55Every acre of land you take here from East Devon to build houses on or develop means about seven acres of forest land or land in Africa is going to go for food production because you've taken it away. We're only getting down to 50% self-sufficiency for our meat, vegetables, and fruit. we're down to 43% self-sufficiency. And it's all very well. A lot of people in this country criticise these other countries for taking their forests away.

00:12:37It's all very wrong to me. So I hope that when you consider these plans and there's agricultural land that you realise that you're destroying the world by building on it. It's not right. The Sahara Desert is extending by 50,000 acres each year. It's not right at all. And please consider building higher, building some flats. We're going to be discussing a site in a minute where it would be ideal for flats.

00:13:16We must stop taking this land. And there's so much in this country going now for solar panels, which could easily be put on on factories. If you go to Exeter Market, that's covered in solar panels. Now, I'm going to say that you've stopping me from speaking as a member of the public for my ward I live in in St. Paul's. I'm very annoyed about this. I'm an objector to one of the sites and I should be allowed to speak it's very wrong of you thank you thank you Councillor Collins could you turn your microphone off please I think we're probably all in at least some degree of agreement with what's just been said however of course we have targets to meet set by national government unfortunately otherwise we're looking at Secretary of State intervention to do it for us. So I think our committee would have sympathy with what you've said, Councillor Collins, not a huge amount we can do about it. Also possibly worth pointing out, I think Carbon Brief did some research which suggested that there aren't enough

00:14:32Roofs in the country to supply enough solar panels to meet our renewable energy needs. But there we go. Okay. With that then, Wendy, are there any other members of the public registered to speak? no there isn't chair okay thank you that brings us then to uh agenda item six proposed uh housing site allocations in Honiton and surrounding areas uh and I believe we are first going over to [member of the public] to take us in so thank you chair uh yeah we're looking at Honiton and surrounding areas where we sit today. And just really by very brief introduction, worth highlighting that the process we've been through for site selection has followed a methodology and it has gone through the flow chart you see there, which starts off with identification of sites flowing through a sifting assessment selection process. So there's been a clear logic to that and this logic sits within the context of there needing to be a housing requirement as you've highlighted. We have a spatial strategy that we're responding to and the site assessment element if

00:15:53You like is the bottom-up component against those two top-down elements. So Honiton you'll see there the map of the area we're looking at, a number of sites that have been recommended for allocation as shown in green. It's probably worth flagging up that in Honiton, we've also picked up a number of sites, technically, well actually in Gittisham Parish, but which are at Honiton as part of the overall assessment. So we start off with site Gittie 03, land on the western side of Hain Lane. Okay, thank you very much [member of the public], [member of the public]. I've got Gittisham on the line. Worth just saying before we begin, for the benefit of members of the public present, what you will hear in a minute, Strategic Planning Committee will consider each of these sites individually. All those of you who've registered to speak will have the opportunity to do so before committee speaks. Then once committee has debated, you will hear one of two things.

00:16:54Either there will be a motion to propose the site, goes into the Regulation 19 draft plan, to allocate it or there may be a motion to move on now that motion's been effectively means that we are rejecting the site today we are not outright rejecting it as far as the entire process is goes that's on the basis of legal advice that says if we can't meet our government mandated numbers by the end of the process we may have to revisit some of these sites and in that event if we have already rejected them we've tied ourselves up in some legal knots um so that's just the basis of that hopefully that makes sense uh and with that said then uh gitty 03 is the first site up and we have Councillor David valentine from gittisham parish council thank you chair um my name is [name removed] and I'm representing gittisham parish council GITI 03 and GITI 04 relate to an allocation which is in your current Local Plan for employment purposes.

00:18:12Difficult to differentiate between 03 and 04. They are clearly interlinked. The parish council has previously raised concerns about what would amount to 15 hectares or 37 acres of employment allocation west of Hain Lane. The site has been allocated for 14 years and there has been no comprehensive proposal coming forward. It extends in total 800 metres to the west and will be highly visible and unacceptable ribbon development.

00:18:54It is a nonsense to say, as some of your officer comments have done previously, that it will have no major impact. 15 hectares of tarmac, concrete, bricks and cladding. The employment allocation of in total of 15 hectares is significantly in excess of what is necessary to serve the needs of Honiton and the surrounding area. There is no statistical evidence that I have seen for a need of 15 hectares.

00:19:34The local need for employment and commercial land can be found with existing vacant land and regeneration opportunities at Heath Park. The local highway's infrastructure is inadequate to serve 15 hectares of employment land. and due to residential development that has been granted over the past few years would add additional danger to both pedestrian and residential traffic on Devonshire Road. The services, gas, water, electricity, foul and surface water, surface sewage treatment are adequate to serve such a development and will require considerable investment.

00:20:19But this perhaps is why it has not come forward. The simple answer is that this is not a viable allocation. It is not deliverable due to its cost. And if it is not deliverable, then it clearly should not be allocated. And that relates to both 03 and 04. Thank you.

00:20:44Thank you Councillor Valentine um I won't do this with every public speaker but in view that we've had a challenge to deliverability uh could I ask mr Freeman to respond to that one please yes thank you jen good morning members um yeah so in relation to gto3 and uh if I touch on gto4 at the same time um I think members will be aware gto3 is is owned by the council and gto4 by few mistakes and there has been some work officers been doing over the last year or so in terms of looking at the delivery of this site a master planning of the site and understanding how it could be delivered it is fair to say that there are some challenges there but I think through working with the land owners we can potentially find a way of delivering this site fundamentally in terms of the plan there is a fundamental need for employment land we have an economic development needs assessment that shows that there's a need for around 80 hectares of employment land in the district that we need to allocate through this plan and my economic

00:21:46Development colleagues would argue that there is a significant number of additional demands in excess of that that that study doesn't necessarily pick up on so there is a significant need for employment land in the area I think there's a significant need for employment land in in that hasn't been provided there are a few parcels within Heath Park I think that haven't so far come forward as the speakers picked up there are reasons for that and those have been been sat there for some time despite our understanding that there is significant demand so we need to work with those landowners as well but I think it's important that we're delivering a mix of housing and employment sites in in the towns and Honiton is no exception to that and I think through the plan we're looking to deliver that mix this is a situation in Honiton I think where the employment lands it's separate from from the housing parcels in that in some of the other locations we've got mixed-use sites which would deliver that so I think this site is an important part of the package as

00:22:53It were for Honiton in terms of that mix of homes and jobs but also an important part of our economic strategy for the district as a whole and meeting the economic needs of the district as a whole and ensuring that not all of our employment land is within the enterprise zone which a high proportion has been up till now so it's important that we are delivering sites like this within the towns to ensure that the economic balance is is there in in all of our communities Thank you, Chair.

00:23:53It would have been taken up by now. So I can't see how we can go forward with it as employment lane. It should maybe be residential, but employment lane, it's not being taken up, it's not being put forward. No-one's applying for it. You know, it's pointless being there. So perhaps we should move on from this one. I'll leave it to other people. OK, thank you, Councillor Brown.

00:24:18Does anybody else wish to speak? Councillor Jung. Thank you, Chair. seeing most of the other sites I believe are residential and there's been a lot of new residential in the mix of residential and employment would be sensible it's right next to the employment area so it makes sense it's between the railway and the 303 how good an agricultural area it is I'm not sure but I I think we need to have a balance of residential and industrial in in most towns and just having residents who will then have to commute to work somewhere else would be nonsensical thank you council young Councillor Hayward. Thank you Chair. Mindful of the point that's just been put forward and I think everyone on this committee and certainly those of us who deal with the economic aspects realise that employment land is much harder to develop out because of the viability gaps. It's very easy to turn a field into houses because there's money to be made. It's more difficult to create employment opportunities. And as all of these things, local authorities often have to reach

00:25:53Out, as we have tried in the past, to national government to help fund these things. If you don't have the land, however, essentially you fall at the first hurdle because you don't have any projects ready to build out if grant opportunities and central funding becomes due. if members are so minded if you fast forward to page 120 of today's agenda pack and you look at Axminster Axminster is being proposed for 4.1 hectares of employment and yet vast amounts of housing those residents will have to work somewhere yesterday myself and the chair were at the west side of the district on employment sites and economic sites that are being built out, and they are done in a way that as much as possible tries to mitigate their environmental and aesthetic impact on the landscape by using tree screening, planting, mine full of biodiversity. Yes, they are fields, but they are being sold, and we do have to find a balance between creating dwellings that are government-mandated targets. This council has moved on from one job, one house, or vice versa, but we've got to provide employment

00:27:08Somewhere and we cannot expect everyone in the east of the district to schlep all the way to Exeter to work um and neither would we want them to you know the the miles the the the carbon footprint of that so the opportunities for employment still must be on the table and as you said at the outset what we must remember here is these are allocations these are theoretic could it be done not will it be done should it be done could it be done and yes unless someone comes forward to plan on it it will remain fallow so all the objections put forward that it will be an ISOL they won't apply because there will still be a field but we've got to leave the opportunities for us as an authority to bid for money and the way we bid may change governments may change but if we don't have the land to build employment on we are as I said going to fall at the first hurdle. Thank you Chair. Thank you Councillor Hayward. Councillor Davey.

00:28:09Yes it seems surprising this hasn't come forward before as it would seem to be ideally located for employment land it's close to the A30 which has got good east-west connections close to the A35 so I would have thought if you're going to site employment land in East Devon that would be an ideal location and I'll take Councillor Valentine's point about it's possibly more than Honiton requires but it's a strategic location just as the West End can be a strategic location for warehousing and small factory developments and so on So I think there are opportunities there that could serve the wider needs of the district, and it does seem to be in a good position for that.

00:29:08Runoff from fields is always a concern, and in some ways I think the mitigation that would be required were that to be developed, yes, there would be an increase in tarmac and concrete. But that has to be mitigated through swales, attenuation, ponds, and so on. So often surface water flooding can actually be improved rather than worsened by the development that's going on. And with regard to Councillor Collins' point about the loss of fields, I think it's a bit simplistic to say the loss of an acre here means the requirement for another acre in the rainforests of Brazil.

00:29:54I think there are things driving those factors that are far more complex. And the main reason, and I speak as a vegetarian and now vegan, is the world's increasing need for meat. That is what is driving deforestation in South America, either for grazing cattle or for growing soya beans not for my soya milk, but for cattle feed, which the vast majority of it goes for. So there are a lot of arguments against this, but as employment land goes, I cannot see a better site in East Devon.

00:30:41Thank you, Councillor Davey. Councillor Lecce. Thanks very much, Chair. I think if you look at the overview of site selections from today, I think officers are recommending around 350 homes within Honiton. And I agree with Councillor Jung. It is nonsensical that we would put up the population by a minimum of 700 people and not provide a single job in that area. So we would be encouraging outward migration to other towns, other settlements for work.

00:31:17We need to have local jobs. It's an opportunity that I think the committee missed with my town in Seaton. There is no employment opportunities there. That's by the by. I think I'd be happy to propose that we accept the site.

00:31:36Thank you, Councillor Ledger. I will look for a seconder. I see Councillor Fernley first. Okay, does anybody else wish to speak? You've already spoken, Councillor Jung. Do you have anything of particular importance to add, or can we move on? Okay. Anybody else wish to speak then? No? Okay. In which case we have a proposal from Councillor Leger seconded by Councillor Fernley to allocate GITIO 3 for employment purposes. All those in favour, please.

00:32:09Yep 10 those against I see one and those abstaining I see one okay one one for both okay in which case that is carried then which brings us to itty o4 could well be just looked upon as an extension and addition to o3 Councillor Valentine do you wish to add anything to your earlier comments or okay thank you Councillor Valentine in which case we have [member of the public] rogers from bell cornwall good morning thank you chair um we're here today on behalf of coom estate and I'm also joined by [member of the public] themselves who is the estate manager uh for coom uh the land owners of both gt04 and gt05 as set out in your reports the gt04 parcel is part of the current employment allocation for Honiton as you've heard it's in the adopted Local Plan and the land remains available for development gitio 4 has the ability to be delivered as a joint allocation with gitio 3 or as its own self-contained individual parcel to form a scheme of development in terms of Honiton's position in the district settlement hierarchy it is an appropriate

00:33:45Location to take significant employment growth both Honiton and the district in its wider context are in critical need of allocated employment land and to facilitate the growth of employment opportunities and industry within the district. And the severity of the need for that land has been highlighted by EDDC's economic development team in their responses to recent planning applications. Obviously, our client feels this site can help address that issue and we would ask members to support the officer recommendation and allocate this site in the new Local Plan, noting that the west of the town presents the best opportunity to provide additional employment land for Honiton.

00:34:20Its proximity to the existing heath park industrial areas as well as the existing residential development underpins its sustainability in employment terms and it's also important from a logistical perspective with its excellent access and connectivity to the a30 and the wider regional road network the location of the site outside of the East Devon national landscape and floodplain also suggests that physically it is a sensible location for developments and we'd also point to the successful development of the coom garden Centre which is owned and operated by the Cuma State as a successful stand-alone business.

00:34:54This part of the town is now very much viewed as being part of Honiton which along with the housing via delivered on the Baker Estate Scheme adjacent is creating a high level of footfall in the area. The employment delivered here also has the ability to link into residential development that can be delivered as part of GTO 5 which we'll come on to shortly with the provision of pedestrian and bicycle links with the adjacent residential developments possible by utilising underpasses and linkages to the land within the control of our clients.

00:35:24We note the questions have been raised regarding the viability of the site in the working member group notes and I'm advised by my client that significant work has been undertaken to date with officers which has also been alluded to by Mr Freeman to examine in detail the viability and delivery of both GITI 03 and 04. This work has looked at the master planning of the site which will provide a mixed-use opportunity for employment in a flexible model which can help address the needs of a developing and involving employment market over the next planned period.

00:35:54Ultimately, this is a good site, the best location for employment allocation in the town, and we hope members can continue to support the allocation of the land.

00:36:02Thank you. [member of the public], coming into committee then. Any comments? Councillor Ledger. I see this as an extension of 50.03 and I'd like to see the sites come together so I'm happy to propose acceptance Chair. Thank you Councillor Ledger. I think I see Councillor Hayward to second that. It is a second Chair but it's also the gentleman speaking has just reminded me I do need to make a declaration that another affects NRI in respect to this specific agenda item.

00:36:39I have a family member works at that garden center thank you okay thank you Councillor Hayward we have a proposal from Councillor Ledger seconded by Councillor Hayward then do any other members wish to speak no okay in which case we will take that proposal from Councillor Ledger to allocate the site to a vote those members in favor please I'm guessing that's 10 okay those against ok we have a different result and those abstaining that's two still all adds up yes indeed ok thank you members that then brings us to GITI 05 and we have again Councillor Valentine thank you chair the parish council does object to the proposed allocations of GITI 05 Gettieho 5, that's A and B, the emergence of second choice sites is a recent addition to local planning processes. By definition, they are not the best sites. There are references in previous documentation to generalities and sensitive and landscape issues, but there is no robust planning analysis of why one would justify bringing forward a second choice site, just to top up the housing figures. It does give the impression that the local

00:38:30Plan process is being led by statistics and not by pure physical, environmental, social planning considerations, which are generally seen to be taking a back seat. Sustainability concerns also seem to come out as a low priority. As an example, your sustainability analysis talks about a benchmark figure of 1,600 metres of the sites of Gittisham, both A and B, being 1,600 metres away from the town centre, town centre facilities and the railway station, etc. That is true if you look at the entrance to the site of Hain Lane. But Gittisham 05 actually extends 800 metres to the west, taking it to over 2,400 metres from any town centre facilities.

00:39:35And it goes even further if you look at Giddisham 5b. Parts of the site, as you can see, are actually within the area of outstanding natural beauty. An allocation of this nature has to show, according to paragraphs 115 and 116 of the National Planning Policy Framework, that they can only be granted in exceptional circumstances and where there is a public benefit. I challenge you to find out what those exceptional circumstances might be and where is the public benefit.

00:40:17It. You could argue, of course, that Hayne Farm is already an example, but I believe that that was a mistake in the first instance. Two wrongs simply do not make a right. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Valentine. Mr. Freeman, you're on notice. I will come to you for some clarity about the national landscape consideration, once we've heard from [member of the public]. Thank you chair. In your report GITIO 5 has obviously been split into two sections 5a and 5b. The officer recommendation is for 5a to accommodate the development of circa 100 dwellings and whilst our client would be very happy to accept this allocation and is supportive of it we would ask members to consider the appropriateness of both parcels 5a and 5b.

00:41:19Development can be delivered on both parcels so it is located adjacent to but entirely outside of the national landscape and if members and officers need to allocate additional housing numbers to meet Local Plan housing figures both sites not just 5a would be credible options for allocation in our view. In terms of officer concern we note that with 5b there is some concern regarding location and sustainability given it extends Honiton in a westerly direction. Regarding comments relating to locational sustainability of parcel 5b we would draw member attention to the offer assessment of the Baker Estate scheme which was approved and is currently delivering 291 houses.

00:41:57The assessment of that scheme took into account the location of the town centre, the nearest supermarket, the nearest employment opportunity, nearest bus stop and nearest school and it was specifically concluded that the site lies in a sustainable location close to essential services and infrastructure and sole reliance on the private motor vehicle would not be required for occupants of the property. If this was the case back in 2015 we would suggest that the same can be said for this location now whilst the site is over a mile from the high street it is close to food retail and employment opportunities at the west end of the district and it's even within walking distance of this building in land use and landscape terms residential development would be seen as a clear extension to honnison and overall it would be a natural extension to the settlement similar to the existing pattern of development with the baker estates development immediately to the east the site would be visible from the surrounding national landscape but it could be located directly outside of it. Key employment, food retail, transport facilities

00:42:56Are located here on the doorstep within walking distance of the site and the creation of the new footway and new active travel link into the Baker Estate Scheme and beyond would improve connectivity. Feature access to the proposed allocated land can also be achieved from the public highway from a number of routes. Ultimately our client hopes members will be supportive of the officer recommendation to deliver an allocation on the 5a land as set out but we would also ask you to note that 5b is also deliverable in a location entirely outside of the national landscape given the challenge to find additional housing numbers this seems like a sensible location to provide more housing particularly given the commercial allocation to the north and the fact that this area has previously been considered sustainable by officers thank you thank you [member of the public]. Mr. Freeman. Yes, thank you, Ger. So, yes, the speaker earlier is obviously correct in terms of national landscapes, that there needs to be exceptional circumstances for granting major developments in national landscapes. Members of the committee may recall that we

00:44:01Brought a report to the committee on the 4th of June about explaining those issues to the committee and setting out an approach as to how we would undertake assessments of major developments in the context of the national landscapes and that's a process we're going through in terms of that assessment so I wouldn't want members to think you've got that full assessment in front of you today that is a work in progress but obviously we will need to demonstrate those exceptional circumstances I think in essence as I've said at previous meetings we cannot meet our housing need unfortunately without eating into areas of significant landscape designation and local immunity importance whether that be national landscapes green wedges of other locations coastal preservation areas and that's an unfortunate situation but as has already been said we are obliged by government to meet the housing requirements set down by them to us I think in this case obviously the site is is only partly within the national landscape and you'll note the national landscape boundary itself is isn't following topographical features or the landscape

00:45:13In this location so I I think that our assessment is that the impact in terms of the national landscape would not be that significant in this location and so we think there is exceptional circumstances in this case to allow this major development obviously we will be producing a more detailed report to go with the evidence of the plan to justify that which you don't have before you today but I think the case is made in terms of the assessment that you have thank you [member of the public] just for the benefit of committee in terms of any sites in national landscapes that we're considering if that exceptional circumstances test subsequently finds that it would not be on balance in the public interest will any sites that we allocate in the national landscapes that are subsequently found not to be in the public interest go forward as allocations or will they be taken out yes I mean clearly the regulation 19 version of the plan will need to come through the committee which will have the final set of allocations within it and we will have to have the evidence base in in place so if

00:46:23There are any currently unforeseen issues in terms of the designation of those sites and obviously we would draw members attention to that when the regulation 19 plan comes through so that members can we consider okay thank you mr. Freeman and with that then I have we can certainly hear you absolutely

00:47:01And if we can hear you that means the tape can as well I don't know that we could do that now but we'll certainly have a look at that when we take a break Thank you Councillor Bruce Train of thought Councillor Hayward Thank you Chair I empathise entirely with what Councillor Valentine said at the outset about the nature of strategic planning and as Mr Freeman and yourself have outlined at the beginning if only this committee weren't required to follow this process in order simply to meet government-mandated numbers.

00:47:43That's where we are. And your statement earlier that if we don't plan this, then the Secretary of State or inspectors will plan for us and it will be a lot worse outcome. So we do have to consider that in the round. However, I do take Councillor Valentine's point that with a linear settlement like Honiton you are getting further and further away simply because of available land from that town centre and particularly in Honiton with regards to school access. You know if you are a school child moving on this new estate or potentially A or even more so B with the distances that have been outlined you are a huge distance from the primary community college and even primary education and that for me is where it becomes more difficult and I appreciate we're not allocating schools today or doctors or dentists or other things but access to those services are part of life and it becomes more difficult unless you can reasonably look at the access to those um and I and yes I'm not I take the [member of the public] point about aomb's and how we are going

00:49:03To have to encroach into them we've done it in the last few meetings regrettably um but on this I I I just find this I think personally it's just going too far in that direction you're just leaving people adrift from the basic services and yes there are a range of commercial opportunities if you're working you know we just considered one and there's heath park but actually the services that you need day to day your leisure services your your retail access your school access your medical access you are becoming so detached from that as you progress west from honington um so I'd be great I mean I'll delighted to hear other other speakers before I make a final decision thank you chair thank you Councillor Hayward I saw Councillor Brown's hand first and And then I have Councillor Levine and Councillor Blakey.

00:49:54Yeah. I mean, these sites of Kittisham 05 are further out of town than the parish of Coombe Riley's. And you won't do development in Coombe Riley because it's too far away from Hollerton. So it doesn't make sense to put that in when you won't do development in other places, which are a lot closer. and also being on the edge or being in the AONB or National Landscape now, it would be a shame to spoil what is there for the sake of putting houses in and you know the distance from there to the school must be close on two miles which is it's not far enough to get transport so they'd have to make their own way there which wouldn't be right and there's no chance for another school being built in the area because the funds and everything's not there for it so I would propose we move on from it okay thank you Councillor Brown that is a proposal so I need to look for a seconder before I come to Councillor Levine I have Councillor Brian Bailey

00:51:02Seconding that okay Councillor Levine I would like to go to page 42 of the reports, the infrastructure report by the officers, which in fact underlined everything that we've said here about Trump. There's no school. We may need to build new ones. There are limited pedestrian and cycle links into Honiton Town. Safe walking routes for school children are not there. There's no school capacity. But the thing that also bores me is we need to assess this in conjunction with proposed sites, Dunkes, and Honiton, because we haven't got the infrastructure.

00:51:47So as far as I'm concerned, this is a very secondary site, and we need to move on.

00:51:53Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Levine. Councillor Blakey. Thank you, Jack. It seems to me that the 05B area is something that is likely to come forward for allocation or request for allocation at some point in the future. So if I may ask Mr. Freeman, why not now? The reason for my question on that is that if both sites were developed together, that would give an opportunity, through contributions from developers, for actually some development of the infrastructure that's necessary, bearing in mind that we're also looking at the commercial land, the industrial development land next door.

00:52:44I think actually that it would make sense to develop 05b as well, and actually not constrain that by not putting it forward for allocation now so as I say I think there is an opportunity there for a rounder set of development which would include some of the infrastructure that would be necessary be it certainly a school maybe retail and medical as well but perhaps Mr Freeman could comment Mr Freeman or other officers who's best placed well if I start and none of us can correct me um uh I mean I think I'd start by saying I do acknowledge that this is quite a long way from the town center uh and and the issues that that uh leads to in terms of distance particularly walking and cycling to those facilities Honiton is already a sort of long stretched out town um linear town uh east to west uh and that has its challenges um I would point out What is relatively close to this site, there's obviously the Coombe Farm Estates Farm Shop and Cafe just north of Giteo 4 that we've just been looking at.

00:54:00There is obviously Heath Park close by and a number of facilities within there and the retail spaces close to this building that are within reach of the site, except it's a bit of a stretch to the town centre from there. clearly that doesn't give access to schools and other things that would be needed on a day-to-day basis but that is a challenge that we face in a number of towns I think we were saying when we were looking at Exmouth a week 10 days ago that a lot of the developments in Exmouth unfortunately end up being out on the periphery of the town and quite a long way from services and facilities so that is a challenge we face in a number of our settlements and as we said before unfortunately we're in a situation in terms of meeting housing numbers of having to allocate the least worst sites and some of them unfortunately uh failed in a number of areas um but we don't have anywhere better to allocate turning to uh council blokey's point in terms of 05a and 05b together I think we

00:55:05Have had conversations in the office about the merits of that in terms of sort of creating a critical mass of development that might support more services and facilities in this area particularly alongside the employment site which in itself is going to generate a number of people there certainly during the day who might help to support some of those services and facilities such as a day nursery or another shop and things like that so there is some merit to that argument I think there are some sensitivities again though in terms of how deliverable that is and we perhaps need to do some more work in terms of the critical mass that would be needed and what could realistically be delivered if you did incorporate O5B as well, because obviously O5B is taking us quite significantly further away from the existing services and facilities as well, so there's a risk there if we can't deliver sufficient services and facilities to make it more of a sustainable neighbourhood in its own right, then you are getting even further away from those services and facilities um I don't know if if matt wants to add to that

00:56:15No um but hopefully you know that there's not it's not without merit in terms of looking at that but I I think we would perhaps need to do a bit more further work in terms of what could actually be achieved and what's realistic I wouldn't want members to allocate both thinking you're necessarily going to get a primary school without first talking to the education authority about whether or not that's realistic for example thank you mr. Freeman and before I come to Councillor Jung Councillor Brown your proposal is that to move on from both 5a and 5b just for absolute clarity but the the proposal that you made okay yes thank you Councillor Jung like a lot of far towns in the district that are limited by the very nature of the geography of where they are. Honiton has got national landscape on the north and south, you've got the floodplain, you've got the bypass, all making the town sort of make a very linear town. Ideally you want it to be in a circle, but it's

00:57:42Becoming more and more like a sausage, isn't it? Going back to some of the speakers about infrastructure, wherever we develop, we're going to have infrastructure problems, and we have to first of all decide where the sites are going and then we've got to build the infrastructure around them and as a as a town they have to grow that the same sort of extent every other town therefore I won't be supporting this motion thank you thank you Councillor Lung Councillor Lung Councillor Ledger Councillor Ledger please speak and save me chair I'll just let you leave you hanging there for a little bit longer um from the comments made I I see this site as a kind of all or nothing it's a and b together so it creates that critical mass that Ed Freeman's speaking of or um we don't put it forward.

00:58:56So on that basis, I'm happy to move on because there is further work that obviously needs to happen with this site. I've just got one comment about the master plan that got sent through, and I know that's not strictly anything to do with this committee, but with the master plan that got sent on, it's just really mainly for the developers to take into account. They've lumped all of the affordable housing into one area, which is against our current policy that we like to sit and watch it around um and with the massings of the the dwellings themselves all of the small one or two bedrooms are classes the social housing that are all lumped together uh there's not a single uh one bedroom house in the rest of the development that's market housing and there is a need for for one for smaller bedrooms within our district and they're not getting delivered out and it's just a frustration that I saw when I saw that master plan and hopefully it's it's beneficial for for those

00:59:57Present in the room thank you Councillor Ledger Councillor Howe thank you chair I suppose it's one of those if we reject this and I'm not saying we should at all but if we reject this then we'll be looking at other sites in under the offices are rejected and they are solely in the um at national landscape and actually worst rated than these sites none of these sites are perfect there isn't a good site we're looking at and I think in the whole Local Plan virtually we're making the best choices we can with the bad hand we've been dealt and as such I do agree I think 5a and b should be considered jointly together perhaps at this point it might be worth me coming to mr Freeman again to ask where we are on our numbers I know we started this process about nine percent short of the headroom that we wanted where are we now well um I mean due to the committee's previous decisions were slightly up on the initial report that I presented which gave

01:01:04Us a headroom I think it just shy of two or around two percent from the top of my head um so about 100 houses up on that um so we're probably creaking to three or four percent at the most probably less than that think about it um so you know we don't have the 10 headroom or anything close to um that we were suggesting was needed uh so we are short of numbers and need to find more than just what as officers we're recommending at this stage um so it would be good to understand And if the committee do feel that 5a and 5b together would be more acceptable, then we can perhaps do some further work and bring that back to a later meeting with perhaps a more detailed analysis of what infrastructure could be delivered across both sites realistically to consider the sustainability of that.

01:02:01And whether or not it's possible to create a more sustainable community in this part of the town that's a bit more self-sufficient and less reliant on the facilities that already exist in the town which are some distance away.

01:02:13Thank you, Mr Freeman. I can't speak for everyone, but I imagine that'll please some at least. Councillor Davey. Yes, I can see some merit in allocating the whole site, not just because of the number of houses but the kind of critical mass it would generate in terms of provision of facilities. I also noticed 5B actually extends as far as the railway line so you'd either need some well you would need some sort of noise mitigation there but it has been suggested it could also generate the potential for a new train station which may sound a bit improbable to some, but it has happened at New Court, at Marsh Barton, around Exeter.

01:03:04So it can happen and can make a huge difference to the accessibility. I also note that it actually is adjacent to existing development, which is already being built out. And so the numbers could actually amount to quite a lot, which could potentially even support another primary school, which I notice DCC have indicated might become a consideration. I don't know what Mr. Freeman thinks. Might be the kind of critical numbers required to make that viable.

01:03:47But it seems to me as though the whole site might actually seem less piecemeal and give an opportunity for more master planning that might provide actually more facilities rather than the sort of smaller site that wouldn't generate any Thank you Councillor Davey. Councillor Ledger you have already spoken is it quick? It's to make an amendment if possible. Okay yes So it's to continue to move on from now, but to instruct officers to make further work, to look into the sites further, to see if there is any merit in taking it forward as A and B together.

01:04:43Okay, Councillor Brown, are you happy to take that as an amendment, or do we need to do it formally? I think Councillor Ledger's proposal is to amend what you've moved to move on, to add and instruct officers to undertake further assessment and bring this back to committee at a later date. Is that... Councillor Brian Bailey, is the seconder, are you happy? Absolutely. Okay. So that stands then as the substantive proposal to move on, do some more assessment work and bring it back to committee at a later date does anybody else wish to speak on this item no okay in which case then we will go to a vote on the proposal by Councillor Brown seconded by Councillor Bailey to move on review and bring back all those in favour that's ten okay all those against and those abstaining that's two okay that brings us then to HONI 04 just to the east slightly and first up from the Honiton Contingent welcome Councillor Jenny Brown that'll be quick because I've got quite a few of these so

01:06:32HONI 04 working group we actually said no to this because of it being in the ARMB or national landscape very prominent. Honington is very difficult. You cannot build it as a circle because of the constraints so it does need to be sausage shaped. But this one we say no, too much into the national landscape.

01:06:56Thank you Councillor Brown. Are we seeing a new slogan for Honington Town Council coming forward here, the sausage town? Councillor Collins worth just highlighting for members benefit that officers' recommendation is not to allocate this site.

01:07:24Thank you, Chair. Earlier, Councillor Davey stated that the land in Brazil has been taken to grow soya bean. I'm just answering this question. Farmers in this country, particularly myself, we are not allowed to use soya feed at all in our rations because I sell my milk to Arla and I've been audited this week and I've passed my audit because we don't use that. Anyway, going back to this site I've got mixed feelings when we had the working party I thought no way should we be building there but having listened to all the arguments on these other sites I think we should put it as a second choice.

01:08:16Thank you. Thank you Councillor Collinsworth saying for members clarification that we can't do second choices at this point and that was a tool that we used in the consultation to help clarify our thinking to the public but today we have a choice between putting these sites into the draft regulation 19 plan or not it's very much a binary choice in that respect with that then I have no further members of the public registered to speak so we come into committee Councillor Brown I'm gonna have to start calling you Ian at this rate um yeah I mean it's a it's a really visible site that I mean quite a way out of town on a slope um not ideal at all so I think we should move on is that a proposal Councillor Brown it's a proposal it's a proposal and I think I'll second that one Councillor Ledger's been upstaged excellent very good does anybody else wish to speak now okay uh in which case we have a proposal to move on from Councillor Brown seconded by

01:09:25Councillor Olive all those in favor that's unanimous that brings us then to honey o5 Councillor Jenny brown also not proposed for allocation hello I think we get the double because two of the badges come on down the buttons come on down here so it's like time lapse okay so this one was at one time put forward for housing when homes england's were trying to do it and they were trying to do affordable housing but there were problems with the sequential test and flooding but I do think that this should be put in and allocated as a site for future reference thank you thank you Councillor Brown short and sweet Councillor Collins and thank you this site

01:10:38Should definitely be developed. We should be putting in flats, high-rise flats. We have Rookwood House up the road on top of Bramble Hill there, which is a big block of flats. You have lots of three-storey houses there. Opposite, you have the old Devonia Cinema, which is used by the donkey sanctuary now there's never flooded since the flood scheme was put in in the 1970s in 1968 there was six feet of water in there the flood scheme has been brilliant the river gishage had quite a few dissipators in there to slow the water down and it's not flooded there is a large sewer runs down through. The new sewer went down through that yard. The opposite side of the road there, that could also be flats as well. I would recommend that you go against the officer's recommendation and put this in. It would be tidying up the site.

01:11:51The site looks very untidy at the moment, and lots of people don't want houses. They just want somewhere they can live in a flat. We have feather flats up King Street with lace house and the other one across the road. It would not be out of character at all. On the side behind the halt, that used to be allotments, believe it or not. That was allotments when I was small.

01:12:21So a hostess put a bridge in and put hard core there and they used it as a storage area. There again, you could build flats there. I don't see any problems with building there.

01:12:36Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Collins, the microphone, please. Thank you. Mr Freeman, just very briefly, am I right in thinking even if we don't allocate this today, this would inevitably be inside the settlement boundary and therefore there would be no principal issues with the site coming forward in planning policy terms. Yes, the site is currently within the built-up area boundary. We're obviously still working on the settlement boundaries, but logically this would be well within the settlement boundary and could come forward as a windfall site.

01:13:08The real constraint is the flooding issues. That's more of a technical issue that needs to be addressed through a planning application process. process we don't have the evidence at this stage through this process to be assured that those flooding issues can be adequately overcome and you'll see planning applications have tried to overcome them and not succeeded but yes it could certainly come forward as a windfall site if someone can address that issue. Just reading the comments that we've heard if committee were to allocate this today is there potential for that to cause us issues down the line with soundness of the plan?

01:13:45I think the risk is that we don't have the evidence in terms of the flooding to know that that can be overcome and addressed, whether that would go to the soundness of the plan as a whole. I mean, it's about an individual site and the soundness of that allocation, which would be potentially an issue at examination if someone was objecting to that, or particularly if the Environment Agency, for example, were objecting to that.

01:14:07So my advice would be to leave that to be resolved to a potential planning application which obviously has been pursued in the past and if they can overcome those issues and come up with an acceptable development in terms of the flooding issues then I'm sure it could come forward as a windfall but um I don't see that we have the information to to make an allocation based on what we've got okay thank you mr Freeman I have Councillor Hayward first thank you I'm grateful to mr Freeman for that clarification um yeah this is another one and this will become a theme as we discuss these that you have a brownfield site in the center of town and we've all read correspondence and reports on the merits of town center regeneration and reuse and when I looked at this report I just felt you know the initial allocation or the assessment of dwellings was actually very very low and I and I'm in full agreement with with council of collins actually these sort of sites you can be more creative you can overcome

01:15:12Flooding issues although it doesn't sound that there is a real flooding issue here since the 70s but council lines would know better than I um so on this I'm prepared to accept offer officer recommendation to move on mindful of their caveat that this should come forward in a scheme it's a pity we can't include it in our numbers in our tally but I think this is a prime site for development in a in a location where essentially you can do away with a lot of parking you can have people who wish to live in a town center avail themselves of those town center amenities um without the the carbon uh you know impact of their vehicles essentially acts active travel personified it's got school access retail access health access for me it's a perfect location to develop um but I'm again grateful for [member of the public] clarity on whether it should be included in the Local Plan so on that I'll propose that we move on check thank you Councillor Hayward Councillor Davey you seconding uh yes I'm happy to second um I think um yeah you know the residents

01:16:23Of Honiton are going to be somewhat baffled that they're quite happy to allocate land on Greenfield and yet not develop or allocate for development a site that would appear to be brownfield and absolutely ripe for development. But so I think it might be worth going back to the Environment Agency and asking them to have another look at the element of flood risk here, because sometimes if you ask them to look at specific sites, they suddenly discover that actually it's not as prone to flooding as they first thought.

01:16:56It is right next to the gissage, and I think it runs right through the site, but as Councillor Collins has said, it hasn't flooded since the 1970s, and I'm pretty much prepared to take his word for it, because he seems to know the area very well. so I think it's definitely one to come back to and see if we we can't find some way around the flooding issues there. Before I come to Councillor Brown Mr Freeman am I right in thinking we make an allowance for windfalls within our total numbers which brings the overall figure down for sites like this? Yes so there's currently an allowance of just shy of 2,000 homes built into the numbers for windfalls so while we're not accounted for this particular site but obviously it did come forward it would form part of that windfall allowance. Worth noting in terms of the flooding issues that even Homes England themselves couldn't overcome the flooding issues on this site when they owned it and made an application for it so I hear what's been said about the flooding

01:18:02I hope someone can overcome it because it would be good to see the site redeveloped but it is It's quite a challenging issue, despite it may not have flooded in recent times. The history of flooding still creates problems.

01:18:15Thank you, Mr Freeman. Councillor Brown. This is a prime site for development. I live probably 150 yards away from it, and there's no way, if there was any chance of flooding, there's no way I'd have bought my property. It's there, it's a town centre, it looks a mess at the moment. And, you know, it needs to be developed at some time to bring Honiton up. You know, it just cannot stay like it is, unfortunately.

01:18:50Thank you, Councillor Brown. I think I'll be right in saying you do live rather up the hill from this site, don't you? Well, yes, no, I wasn't disputing that, but slight game changer in terms of flood risk. Councillor Fernley.

01:19:06Thank you, Chair. Yes, I think I'm with everyone. um on this that we'd like to work out how we could include this if it was possible or to get it developed um I have been saying recently that there has been some creative development where a block of flats was built um that was expected to flood and there were ways for the water to actually go underneath the building so a bit of creative thinking is required to get this on off the ground thank you certainly is I had the pleasure of marking a first year paper on sponge cities last year fascinating concept but there we go not sure not sure we've managed that on just the one site is that hand Councillor Jung yeah okay Councillor Jung yeah flooding comes in my portfolio if a flood scheme was designed in the 1970s it needs to be reviewed it's a brownfield site so therefore there is issues with whose responsibility it is right here in our initiative and all the rest of it but because of climate change we need to

01:20:15Review all previous flood schemes that were done in the 1970s so the opportunity of developing the site with the help and advice from the Environment Agency to overcome extra flooding issues might be a way forward but but that needs to be obviously put on hold at the moment so I would support moving on from this side Thank You Councillor Jung we do have a proposal from Councillor Hayward seconded by Councillor Davey to move on does anybody else wish to speak you have already spoken Colin just to say are we going to come back and look at this site or are we just moving on I think the proposal is to just move on on the basis of advice from Mr Freeman that in the event that the flood risk can actually be overcome this could come forward as a planning application and there wouldn't be any barriers in planning policy terms because it's inside the settlement the issue would just be for the planning application to overcome the flood risk have I got that right mr. Freeman yes apparently I have in case that wasn't

01:21:36Picked up I think the reason that we're not proposing or mr. Freeman is not recommending that we come back is because we don't have any evidence at this stage that the flood risk can be satisfactorily overcome in order to allocate the site yes sir thank you mr. Freeman does that answer your question Councillor Brown well I I just can't see how the site can be you know can be flagged at all um yeah it never will pass there almost daily and the the water never rises much above you know a foot below the top of the um stream canal whatever you want to call it that goes through their gittage um it never overflows there I've never seen it overflow well I'll just back up up what Councillor Jung said that obviously a 1970s flood defence scheme won't have taken account of the impacts of climate change and so there will be a need to look at that and I think that's part of the issue with this from the Environment Agency's perspective. I think we

01:22:41Would all agree that we want to see the site redeveloped. It may not be appropriate for residential purposes but lower risk uses could potentially come forward, employment units and things that are less risk might be more appropriate but the question today is could this come forward for housing we simply don't have the information to say that the flooding issues can be overcome if they can be through an application in the future good luck to them if it can be and a lower risk use can come forward on the site I think we'd probably welcome that um but I don't see that you're in a position to allocate it today I don't see if you move on I know we're not formally saying we're not going to allocate any sites but I can't see that that situation is going to change to then revisit it through this process I think we're reliant on someone doing a lot of work alongside the environment agency to model the flooding issues understand what works need to take place and designing a very inventive scheme to overcome those issues but that's that's not where

01:23:41We are today unfortunately okay thank you mr Freeman we have a proposal then from Councillor Hayward seconded by Councillor Davey to move on all those in favor hands nice and high please did you get Councillor Bailey in that tally wendy I think it was 10 can we have hands again please just to make sure that's 10 442 yeah indeed it sounds like a a bit of pre-match football commentary uh those against none and those abstaining too okay that adds up to 12 very good uh that is not allocated then and we move on over the page to honey 06 surprisingly enough at Councillor Brown all right okay so it makes a change to be knocking down the school and building houses but yes the working party said yes this needs to be done what was confusing though was We're trying to put this into the Local Plan.

01:24:59But then the tree officers decided to stick some TPOs on there. But I also think that there's... Am I right in this being some land held back for Little Town School to expand? That's what I've sort of heard. But yes, no, this one should be allocated. Councillor Collins.

01:25:33Thank you. Well, I've read all the reports of the developments for Honiton and villages around, and a common theme is their lack of a primary school. So how stupid to knock down Millwater School. School's already there. It can be extended onto Littletown School. I've been, I used to go to Millwater School. It was a special needs school. I used to go and support their Christmas bazaar. I mean, it was a fantastic school.

01:26:14It got moved away, and the site has just been allowed to deteriorate. I mean, Devon County Council should be ashamed of themselves to let it get in such a way. But I would very much like to see this site being part of Littletown School. So don't demolish it, please. Thank you.

01:26:39Thank you, Councillor Collins. The microphone, please. Sorry. Thank you, Councillor Bruce. Mr Freeman, on that note, I believe I've seen you conspiring with your colleague, hopefully to get us some detail about the issue of the school land. I think the answer, Chair, is we don't know for sure. I do recall some conversations with colleagues at Devon County Council some time ago, and I'm pretty sure that they said that they had thought ahead about the future of the school and its expansion.

01:27:13I can do a little bit more digging while members are talking. I don't know if Matt knows more. I didn't check the map, sorry. Sorry, I was only going to draw your attention to the committee report for HONI 06, which does reference conversations we've had with Devon County Council on school capacity issues in recent weeks, where they set out that the town currently has spare capacity for primary school pupils and the current school is operating effectively at undercapacity.

01:27:43Okay thank you [member of the public] um just as I imagine this will be a concern for committee could we should committee decide that it wants to allocate do that subject confirmation that Devon county have enough room to expand should they need to I'm happy to check that with Devon county yes if members are concerned Councillor Ledger so this is actually a site the housing looked at as part of their program to increase housing and the section is there's a section of land to be returned to the primary school and has to be lawned and fenced as part of the agreement okay so land is safeguarded for expansion of the school okay thank you for that clarification and for bearing with us. On that, members, Councillor Levine.

01:28:41Thank you, Chair. May I ask a question to Matt? DCC education said there are spare places in Honiton schools, and yet throughout all the sites of Honiton, we're talking about there's a need for primary school, an additional one. So I'm a little confused about what the situation is. I think the issue here is that the reports are reflecting a position of the County Council probably a year or two ago the current position is much more recently updated so in effect there are I wouldn't say there's contrary messages but there is an update and the updated position does indicate school capacity and that that's the feedback we've had from Devon County Council Thank you, [member of the public]. Does anybody else on committee wish to speak? Councillor Davey.

01:29:39Yes, again, it's a brownfield site. I'm happy to support the proposal to adopt this one. My only concern is that looking at Google Maps, there's a number of trees on the site. I struggle to see how it could accommodate 30 homes if those trees were to be preserved and I would be cautious about allocating it for 30 homes but perhaps officers could comment on whether it would be possible to keep the trees on the site and still fit in those homes.

01:30:22But I wouldn't want to see those taken out, they look quite mature from the look of Google Maps [member of the public] you I don't know if you can switch on HDMI 2 So this is the site on our GIS system and the annotations you can see are the TPO trees, so there's three TPO trees either side of the entrance of the site and then a group TPO along the boundary so that my point is the TPO's are all to the boundaries of the site so I don't think they massively impinge on the developable area and obviously this is as I think you can see actually some of the surrounding area is at quite high density so I think I think the number is is reasonable it might be slightly challenging but I think it's achievable and I think we've said at previous meetings about wanting to achieve higher densities on brownfield sites within the urban areas so I think I'd stand by the figure Also worth perhaps noting that the 30 is just an outcome of our

01:31:45Standard formula that we use on all sites That's right Chair but as I say because the TBO is on the boundaries of the site the available bullet area is isn't particularly impinged okay thank you [member of the public] Hayward sorry just just before just before council haywood Councillor Davey was that a proposal that I heard from you it was so before I come to Councillor Hayward then do we have a seconder for that proposal to allocate honey 06 Councillor Hayward okay sorry thank you thank you no problem at all chair um this comes back to the point again Councillor Collins mentioned earlier when speaking as ward member if we as a committee and as a district want to prevent the loss of green fields we are going to have to encourage the reassessment of brownfield sites and in town centre locations that means we're going to have to go up we're not talking about multi-story blocks of flats they're completely inappropriate I would say in most if not all of East Devon but certainly apartment living for people who want to live in or near the town centre and actually an apartment

01:32:56Complex of some kind in this block could quite easily house 30 people and still maintain this gorgeous tree boundary how glorious it would be to live within an enclave of trees in the middle of a town centre with all the oxygen being pumped out on a site here and I don't think it be really out of keeping or um uh you know I'm I'm I'm livable in this area so I'm happy to second the proposal because I think this can sustain it with creative planning by using a redundant and simply wasted brownfield site let's use them and every time we do this we negate the need to concrete over a green field thank you thank you Councillor Hayward point well made I think I would say on behalf of committee does anybody else wish to speak on honey oh six no okay in which case we have a proposal from Councillor Davey seconded by Councillor Hayward to allocate the site in the regulation 19 draft all those in favor our second unanimous decision of the day sorry can we have um

01:34:14Hands again it's not quite unanimous sorry I stand corrected because of course Councillor Bailey can't vote yes indeed okay almost unanimous in which case then we come to honey 07 and I have I'm beginning to get deja vu here Councillor Jenny brown right so this one again came before the working party and we agreed yes it is in the national landscape but is a very very secluded site it's next to or adjacent to st michael's church and I understand there was going to be some synergy with the church to also provide a car park so that people when they're visiting the gravestones or graveyards can use that so yes this is actually agreed to go forward and be allocated. Thank you, Councillor Brown. Councillor Collins. Thank you. This is a difficult one for me

01:35:39Because obviously it's very good farmland, which my brother-in-law farms. Cooma State have allocated spaces for St Michael's Church car park. Excuse me, Councillor Collins, could I just say, you didn't declare an interest with regards to your brother-in-law owning any land so you'll need to be declaring an interest if that's the case? I'll declare an interest. OK, so let's check then what you should be declaring before we move on, please.

01:36:15My brother-in-law doesn't own this field. It belongs to Cooma State. So you said that your brother-in-law owned it at the beginning? No, I didn't. I said it belonged to Cooma State. My brother-in-law is the tenant or he has to grass keep one or the other but it will still affect his well-being and his finances if it's his job yep thank you okay so bear with me one moment then I hope this isn't taking my time on the clock not working on because you really declare your interest so we'll come back and give you the fact the time it's absolutely fine right so that one will be a dialect directly relates NRI so you can speak in the public meeting but you must leave during the discussion and the vote I'm a St Michael's ward councillor, am I going to know what's going on? You're not allowed to because your brother-in-law has an interest in the land so it directly relates to the finances or well-being of your relative so you are able to speak and

01:37:26You must leave the room when the discussion and the vote takes place them's the rules I'm afraid well I think that um it's my time has disappeared there I'm sure that can be reset that's absolutely fine there we go we've revealed the secret to the members of the public here for how to get more time all right thank you um you've lost me now this site should be if you're going to recommend it for a development you should be reckoning the site adjoining it as well because if this site is developed the next site adjoining it you've lost the access and I feel that both sites should go as one. You've lost me on the number I've forgotten the number. Is it 15? I don't think it's 15. Seven is this one, 12 is the one next door I think. Right but these two sites should go together. Not as one. But they are in an area of outstanding natural beauty. But then they are adjoining they are the opposite side of an existing site

01:39:00At Haydens Park there. And I don't think it would be too harmful to build there. Right. I'll leave the room now.

01:39:13Thank you, Councillor Collins. Okay. We come into committee then. Councillor Ledger. Oh, sorry. Yes. I've got out of the habit of checking. [member of the public], your three minutes.

01:39:45Yeah, thank you, Chair. Obviously, the Cuma States are the owners of the site and the site is available for development now. And technical work has begun on preparing or understanding a scheme of development for the land. The suggested allocation indicates that the site could accommodate circa 30 dwellings and obviously the technical work that's been produced so far for the proposals that we're working on indicates that this is a very achievable figure for the site. There's obviously suitable access that can be taken from Wetherill Road which is located in the northern corner.

01:40:18There's an existing field gate access which can be adapted to provide suitable visibility. In terms of accessibility it's obviously really well related to the town centre to public transport it's approximately 390 metres to the train station walking north along church hill and similar distances to the hospital and gp surgery it's less than 800 metres to the high streets obviously all the services and facilities provided there so obviously despite being on the edge of the built settlement because of the elongated shape of the town that's been referred to earlier it's actually very close to the services and facilities within within the town obviously has been acknowledged the sites entirely located within the national landscape however as per officer recommendations it is very well contained in landscape terms so visual impacts are extremely limited despite a slight slope on the land it is positioned above the road level and is well contained in terms of planting and the boundary frontage on weather all road is particularly well screened but further structural planting and landscaping could be delivered as part of

01:41:27Any proposal. The presence of St. Michael's Church has obviously been noted and its associated grounds which are to the east of the site. I think as the officer report points out obviously there's substantial planting around the perimeter of the site which restricts kind of intervisibility between the church and the land and obviously any setting impacts can be designed around and we would also add that current proposals as referenced by Councillor Brown are being worked up by a client to offer a car park as a form of enabling development for the adjacent church. So in that regard it's currently the intention of the applicant to provide a car park that will basically provide access for the churchyard for burials and provide a newer safer parking environment. This will also help free up the existing small car park in the church grounds for the burials and it's also hope the delivery of that car park will also hopefully in part allow the church to be retained for religious purposes and also brought into active community use. So taking all of the above

01:42:35Into account it's a very well located site close to amenities and facilities and we hope members can include it as an allocation in the Local Plan thank you with a second to go I think that's a new record for these meetings [member of the public] for cutting it close um thank you uh in which case then we come to Councillor Ledger I feel like I'm being told I'm quiet I'm not my school teacher um I was just going to ask chair whether we could take uh this together with uh site 12. mr Freeman um well It's up to members, but I mean, it's two different recommendations.

01:43:23One is recommended for allocation, one isn't. So I think I would advise taking them separately. You could rejig the agenda if you wanted to take HONI 12 next, because I've realised it's not next on the agenda, which might be more logical to do them one after the other. I think it might be better for us to do that rather than take them at the same time, given the different recommendation.

01:43:50Councillor Hayward, was that a hand, or were you stretching? That was a stretch, Chair.

01:43:55Thank you, Councillor Hayward. Councillor Howe? I'll move the officers, I'll recommend this yes and go ahead. Okay, that's a proposal to allocate from Councillor Howe, seconded by Councillor Brown. Do you wish to speak? Well, I mean, it's an ideal site. It's probably 200 yards from the station, hospital, doctors, 400 yards from the town centre I mean, it can't be better than that can it? Well put, I think, in short Does anybody else wish to speak on this site? Councillor Brian Bailey Thank you Chair This seems to be a discussion earlier about the linear size of Holland Well this will go some small way of retarding the linear development of Holland and making everything further and further away from the town centre.

01:44:53As my colleague has said, it's very close to all the amenities, so I think it's perfect. And the fact that it may be prime agricultural land, as a representative of Exxon, we got absolutely hammered the other day on prime agricultural land. So, just share it a bit, shall we? Thank you very much, Chair.

01:45:11Thank you, Councillor Bailey. You did get away with a few, but yes, point taken. OK, does anybody else wish to speak on this one there? No, OK, in which case we have a proposal from Councillor Howe, seconded by Councillor Brown, to allocate HONI 07. All those members in favour, please. That is unanimous. OK, thank you, members. That being done, then, we will take a short break now until 11.55.

01:45:43OK, members, we're going to come back to order.

02:02:54Colin's retrieving a Malteser. Would you like to come back to committee, Colin, or do we leave you to it? Councillor Parr sends her apologies. She's had to go home. And before we go back into session, I thought members might like some good news that our scheduled meeting on the 1st of October, if I got that date right, before I give that yet, the scheduled meeting on the 1st of October is going to be cancelled because we have no reports to consider.

02:03:26So that one is not coming forward. The other four meetings in October, however, will be continuing as planned. so we give with one hand and take with the other but there we go my train of thought has just been completely derailed by that Honiton 12, we've brought this one forward a few steps in the agenda as it is immediately next door so we come to Councillor Jenny Brown yeah it just seems sensible to bring it in with and put it in to be allocated as per [member of the public] suggestion and Councillor Ledger's makes us more round, less sausage.

02:04:23But then what will happen to your new slogan, Jenny? Councillor Collins, before you speak, is it just worth checking if you have the same declaration to make on this site or not? OK, in which case, again, you'll have to leave for this one, but you're still entitled to your three minutes.

02:04:42Thank you thank you for following my suggestion and linking the two together

02:05:06Did you approve the last one did it get recommended right well then if you're going to have houses there I don't I don't see any reason why you shouldn't have them in the fields next door, because they're opposite the development at Haydens Park. You've got good road network there. If you don't approve it with the site next door, it's got no access, only down over a steep bank, very steep bank there, or a narrow lane. So I'll leave it at that. Thank you thank you Councillor Collins um before we come into committee then I'm going to come to [member of the public] who I'm reliably told will explain to us why the recommendations are different I thank you the the critical difference between 07 and 12 is that 12 is on quite substantially more elevated land and of more prominence in the landscape so whilst both sites full within the national landscape 012 is then more visually prominent and does sit above the surrounding areas in a more distinctly more noticeable way okay thank you [member of the public] uh so

02:06:31Landscape concerns essentially make up the difference yep okay committee then any thoughts Councillor Brown someone's got to take over from Ian Barlow haven't they yeah I think it should be allocated I mean I know it's in an AOMB like the last site is but it's well screened from the road if the hedges stay in place that are there you won't see the site it will be protected um and it's you know like the other side it's easy access walk to both the station the doctors the hospital and the sound center I know it's a bit of a struggle coming back because you've got to walk uphill but um you know going there brian even brian can walk to the station the hospital it's coming back he might have difficulty but um uh you know it's well located compared to some that have been put on offer thank you thank you Councillor Brown Councillor Davey to us to deal with hills electric bikes anyway enough of that yes it does seem sensible to allocate the two together

02:07:55Again location development kind of in reasonably large blocks I think allows for more facilities it enables that the development to be concentrated in one area the views I think perhaps are not from the road but but from further up there may be footpaths which I can't see on the map here but I think with some sensitive screening to the sort of southeast and southwest I think that could be mitigated and would increase the immunity for the people living in that area as long as the houses aren't too close to those in which case to be shaded there is a line of trees following the hedge line between the two sites I'd like to see those preserved if possible I don't know if that's no I think I gathered there was a plan for this but I think it makes sense and as Councillor Brown has said it's extremely accessible for hospital train station and other facilities I'm happy to recommend I was about to say as we haven't had a proposal yet but was that

02:09:17To proposal Councillor Davey yes in that case I thought maybe Councillor Brown had I wasn't quite sure I'll second then yeah I'll second okay so um we have a proposal then from Councillor Brown seconded by Councillor Davey to allocate um I've just been conferring with um mr Freeman as this site is in a national landscape the exceptional circumstances test has to be applied here and I think I'll be right in saying officers would have some concerns about whether this might meet it um so I without taking words out of his mouth I think [member of the public] preference would be that we moved on today and came back to it in mid-october once that assessment has been done in full um it's obviously committee's decision we could allocate it today and address the question if there are any concerns when the full regulation 19 plans to committee uh plan comes to committee um so that's that's there for members so councillors brown and davy do you stand by your recommendation or are you happy to Councillor Davey uh well I I mean it depends whether that's

02:10:28Going to cause difficulties for officers we've done what end up the challenge at the Reg 19 stage um which results in us having to to take the plan back and redraft so I I'd like I suppose I'd like to hear more about the implications uh for proposing that one mr Freeman uh yes thank you chair um I mean officers initial assessment was raising concerns particularly about landscape impacts of this site I think the report also talks about um the impact on the heritage asset of the church which is listed as well and obviously the the higher the land and the impact is in terms of the setting of the church so um I think I would urge caution uh in terms of this one and um I think the cautious approach would be to allow us to do fair assessment work having heard members views on this site and enable us to bring bring it back to the wash-up session in in october with that more detailed assessment of those issues having heard what members have said

02:11:34I mean nothing's really final until we bring the regulation 19 plan through for sign off in any event but I wouldn't want the committee to commit to something and then have to retract that um having given it for consideration I would urge on the side of caution we can take away members views do that bit of additional work and bring it back at the wash up session which is probably be looking mid-October.

02:12:00Councillor Davey? Just in terms of the listed building, it does state in the report that the site adjoins the church but isn't it 07 that adjoins the church 12 is actually further away. I understand the impact would be greater because of the increased slope there but But it's not actually adjacent, is it? Unless it's to do with the footprint of the church, is that what it is?

02:12:38It's not the actual church, but it might be the church curts of it. Yes, through your chair, you're right, Councillor, it's HONI07 that actually abuts the church. But as I said, I think my understanding is that the more elevated nature of this site means development on it could have a greater impact on the setting of the church than the other site which is at a lower level, a more similar level to the church itself so I think that's my concern and why I sort of urge caution in terms of us looking at those issues and giving you a bit more information Councillor Brown yeah no that's fine I mean if you if you compare that site with Honiton 15 which hasn't come up yet and which hasn't been discussed.

02:13:31Honiton 15 is prime site you can see from the Sidmouth Road from all parts of Honiton you can see that particular site. It stands out like a soft thumb just as it is at the moment without any properties going on it. I know we're not discussing that one but compare that to the site at number whatever it is. Honiton 12 only 12 um only 12 is you know it doesn't stand out it's well screened at the moment and it will continue to be well screened because east ed will make sure of that so you know a can put one in that stands out like a soft diamond one that is in the aomb and doesn't stand out and well screened I mean there's no comparison between the two thank you Councillor Brown I'm guessing you're standing by your proposal then um Councillor David do you still wish to second I think I'd take [member of the public] advice on this one and perhaps defer it um and see if we can do some further reports on whether mitigation would be possible um to uh lessen the impact on the heritage asset and

02:14:47The national landscape so just to be clear you're no longer seconding the proposal Councillor Brian bailey are you seconding yes please may I say a few words you may yes thank you um I agree entirely with my colleague his local knowledge is considerably better than mine regarding national land because we are as we all aware between a rock and a hard place everywhere you go in East Devon is virtually natural national land we're very fortunate in that respect so however you interpret the rules you're going to have to build somewhere which is national land and this in my opinion is very close to the town centre local people tell me they can't see it from various vantage points unlike the other one which is further down yet to come so I think there's less harm in building there than other places which I know very well, I'll mention Exmouth again which is the prospect of being built right up to the Pebblebed Heaths which is normally wouldn't even be considered but we have to consider

02:16:06These sites and we have to bite the bullet because we've got no choice and we don't want officers from the government coming down here taking over at all so So, apologies to members of East Devon, which we all live in, because once they realise the problems that we have, and I'm not making excuses here for genuine reasons, if we don't do it, the government will send someone to do it for us, and they won't be as sympathetic as we are, Chair, for one moment.

02:16:33So, I think we've got to do the best of a bad job, Chair. Thank you very much.

02:16:39Thank you, Councillor Braley. My own words being used against me there. Councillor Ledger, did you still wish to speak? No? Okay. Councillor Jung.

02:16:49Thank you, Chair. It's in the natural landscape, and yes, we should be protecting it at almost all costs, but we have got housing that we have to provide. I'm concerned about the heritage asset of the church and how it will sit, And there's two footpaths. One, the site goes actually through it. The others form the boundaries. But with careful design, the two sites would go together. But I do take Ed Freeman's advice on this one, and we should wait until we have some more advice on this one. Thank you.

02:17:39Thank you, Councillor Jung. Councillor Howe? Yeah, that's the whole point. Officers aren't saying no to this site. They're just saying they want to go back and reassess it after listening to what the committee is saying. So I really hope we heed that, get the correct advice from our officers, and they bring it back, and then we can have the proper discussion.

02:17:58Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Howe. Councillor Blakey? Thank you, Councillor Howe, for saying what I was just going to say, which is that I think we should take [member of the public] advice on this, have him take it back, examine what the potential liabilities are for us on this and bring a report back to a future meeting. I'm a bit uncomfortable with the proposal to go ahead and allocate it now.

02:18:31I think it would be unwise. Thank you, Councillor Blakey. Councillor Levine, was that a hand? Just to say what Councillor Hound, Councillor Blakey just said. Okay, thank you, Councillor Levine. So we do have a proposal that's been validly made and seconded that we need to consider first. So I think unless any other members wish to speak, we'll take that to a vote. Okay, in which case then the proposal is to allocate site HONI 12 made by Councillor Brown seconded by Councillor Brian Bailey all those in favour that's two I sense this may not be a unanimous decision all those against eight and those abstaining one okay in which case I will move as the chair that we move on and bring this back to the wrap-up session following further assessment all those in favor that's nine those against and those abstaining is it two yes there we go very good okay thank you members um can we uh ask Councillor Collins to rejoin us then I think Councillor Faithfull might have gone to do that

02:20:04Councillor Ledger do you want to speak it's just a point of information chair so I'll I know the the whole premise is that we are not discounting any of the sites at the moment but the ones such as uh honey 12 and the ones that we've asked officers to do more work on are we keeping those in a separate file so that we know some of the numbers that we are agreeing and that when Mr. Freeman is giving figures that say, oh, we are only at 4%, but we've brought ones back that may be more likely to go ahead, we have a better idea of that.

02:20:43I've really poorly explained that. I understand what you mean. You were asking if we have a third box that we're putting things in. Speaking for myself, I can say, yes, today is the first time we've actually moved to move on but to bring some back. Mr. Freeman, are we keeping track of these? Yes, I've made a note. I'm a bit more old school than you. Mine's on a paper pad, whereas yours is a spreadsheet.

02:21:07But yes, I have a note, so it's in a separate column. OK, thank you, Mr. Freeman. That brings us then back to the original running order, and I believe to HONI 08. Yes, that's right, HONI 08, checking my paper. I have no registered speakers for this site, so we come straight into committee. Does anybody wish to speak? Councillor Davey. I'm going to propose that we just move on immediately.

02:21:35I think it's a dreadful idea. I can't imagine who put it forward. But, yeah, to break up a bit of green space like that. And the site itself looks as though it would be extremely difficult to even develop. so I suggest we just don't waste any time on this whatsoever. I think I tend to agree. Councillor Blakey are you seconding that? I am yeah frankly it's a silly idea of minimal benefit and lots of damage let's not. Okay does anybody have anything to add?

02:22:13No in which case the proposal is to move on by Councillor Davey seconded by Councillor Blakey all those members in favour? That's carried unanimously very good thank you committee uh honey 09 also not recommended for allocation on the wrong side of the a30 I have no members of the public registered to speak do any members of committee wish to speak no in which case I'll move from the chair that we move on from this site all those members in favor that's unanimous which brings us then to site honey 10 and I have samantha thomas for Carnie Sweeney.

02:22:55Thank you, Chair Members. Samantha Thomas from Carnie Sweeney Planning. We are acting as planning agents for Taylor Wimpey in respect of the pending application that's currently in on the site. I think we would obviously endorse officers' recommendation that the site be allocated for 21 homes. We consider Honiton is well-placed to provide more development, both housing and, as we've heard this morning, employment, not only to meet local need, but to support the town centre but also to provide a more balanced distribution of growth across the district which we believe is quite an important consideration for this next Local Plan in terms of the site it's obviously a very logical sensible site not caught by some of the issues we've heard today in terms of its location, national landscape or flooding which is not affected it's a deliverable site with a willing developer as evidenced by the live application in terms of the live application we've been working positively with your officers which we're grateful for to provide additional information and as of now Devon County Highways, Lead Local Flood Authority

02:24:13And importantly your Environmental Health Officer are all satisfied with the proposed access arrangements the drainage strategy and most importantly the noise mitigation measures which can be incorporated at the detailed stage The only outstanding matters we're looking at now are just matters of detail, which again would be for the next Reserve Matters stage, but we are confident it can be overcome. So we would hope that members would support the allocation of the site. Thank you.

02:24:43Okay, thank you. We come then to Councillor Jenny Brown. We do not come to Councillor Jenny Brown. Instead, we come to Councillor Collins.

02:25:05Thank you. This is getting better than going to the gym. And Turks Head Lane gets flooded with sewage, I'm afraid. There are two sewage outfalls, and they were given permission, I think, 50 years ago, to let storm outflows across the land. and the sewage runs out onto the slip world from the dual carriageway and it comes up the drain. When you get heavy rain, it comes up the gratings and then it runs down under the flyover down to the Turks Head picnic area and then down onto the River Otter.

02:26:02I mean, this day and age, this sort of thing shouldn't be allowed. And you're going to build new houses down there. I hope that Taylor Wimpey put a lot of pressure on southwest water to stop this horrible mess. I support the houses.

02:26:23Thank you. Okay, thank you, Councillor Collins. That brings us then into committee. The recommendation from officers is to allocate. Does anybody wish to speak? Was that a hand, Councillor Howe? Were you trying to poke my eye? No, probably both, but at the same time, yeah, I'm happy to move. We accept this. OK, Councillor Levine, are you seconding? OK, thank you. Any members wish to speak? No, OK, in which case we have a proposal from Councillor Howe, seconded by Councillor Levine, to allocate the site.

02:27:01All those members in favour? Can we have all hands at the same time, please?

02:27:10Thank you. That's unanimous. Okay. Thank you, members. That brings us then to not HONI 12, because we've done HONI 12. So, HONI 13. And we have Councillor Jenny Brown. No, we do not have Councillor Jenny Brown, so we have Councillor Collins.

02:28:01You're doing it so quickly, I seem to have lost track. Yes, Middle Hill Church I don't know why you call it Church Lane It's at the top of Church Hill This used to be a small poultry farm There used to be quite a lot of deep litter houses There were battery cages I think they were Because I can remember the egg lorry used to come to my farm And then he'd go there and pick their eggs up but I'm not happy at all about where the access is going to be because the traffic comes down Marlport's Hill and then it meets a junction there and it'll be lining up I don't see where a safe access can go into this site also there seems to be a building there that's been converted into a dwelling at the moment.

02:29:04Building works are going on there. I can't recall a planning application going through there. I think this site needs to be looked at very carefully.

02:29:14Thank you. OK, thank you, Councillor Collins. Members, Councillor Brown. This is unusual, isn't it? Okay. Yeah, I mean, on this site, I mean, that came to planning probably three years ago, Ed, something like that, where they've got – if you're looking there, I don't know more than you, do I? It came to committee for the poultry sheds to be converted into residential units, and I think it also got permission prior to that for accommodation over their garage on this site.

02:29:53So it's got development that's taking place there. So, you know, it wants to have another 10 properties there as such. So I think we should approve it. Not approve it, but yes. Is that a proposal to allocate, Councillor Brown? Yes. Okay. Do we have a seconder for that proposal? Councillor Blakey, do you wish to speak? Not much to say, really. it seems to me it's a fairly small development opportunity but one which I think is they're completely appropriate so yeah happy to second okay thank you Councillor Blakey do any other members wish to speak Councillor Ledger more of a question chair if I understand I don't know whether that would be with it being in the national landscape whether that area there is more visible then then only 12 and I just want to get clarification on that point just knowing the area officers from my knowledge it's not particularly visible in comparison to the sites to the west it's pretty well screened okay Councillor Brown this is the other side of the church which was

02:31:28Holly 07 so just the other side of that so short distance into town you have got across the road but other than that it's some downhill downhill both ways would be an interesting innovation. I think SPC might win some plaudits for that one. So we do have a proposal from Councillor Brown, seconded by Councillor Blakey. Do any other members wish to speak? No? Okay. In which case, we'll take that to a vote on the proposal to allocate then all those members in favour. That's unanimous. Which brings us to HONI 14 another recommended allocation and we have no members of the public registered to speak which brings us into committee I I don't think I've specifically addressed that point in correspondence actually Councillor Collins but you're not really a member of the public are you you're a you're a member of East Devon district council um and we've been pretty clear that ward members are not going to be able to speak on sites outside of their ward that's why we've taken this approach respectfully respectfully Councillor Collins you're

02:33:17Not a member of the public you are a Councillor And standing at that program podium you will be construed by the public as though you are speaking as a Councillor So I'm gonna move us on into committee do any members inside committee you wish to speak. Councillor Brown? So I'll get my bearings on this particular site. Is this the other side of the railway going out of Honiton? Do you have to go under the railway bridge to get to this site? Yes. And it's not suitable because that bridge, I mean I've had complaints from the villages on that side of Honiton where they say that if the bridge was damaged in any way. It's just room enough under that bridge because it's at a bad angle. There's just room enough on that bridge to get two cars, two small cars, past one another. If the bridge was to be hit, you'd have problems with the trains from Honiton to Exeter or to London.

02:34:37It's not a suitable allocation. I mean, if they want to spend millions and millions of pounds altering the bridge, that's fine. But if that's not the case, it's the wrong place to put it. I mean, I have to say, Councillor Collins, having looked at this on Street View in the working group and seen the bridge, there's worse ones in my village. And nobody's raising any concerns about those.

02:35:05Yeah, but there's no place to have as many cars go through there from other villages. I don't know. I can't say I know this particular area of East Devon particularly well. I have just asked Ed to bring up Street View, if he can, for us in a moment. Do any other members wish to speak? Councillor Hayward. Oh, sorry. Yeah, this is another one of these sites that is before us.

02:35:41It's not ideal, as Noel touched on earlier. I've driven past it personally quite a few times, coming back from when Harry Hale was there. And, yeah, whichever way you access it, whether you access it from the east or the west, it's not the greatest place for it, but that's what we're having to deal with. We are looking at these sites one by one. So on that basis, given that a very small limited development and you've got access into the town, walking access, cycling access, reluctantly, I'm happy to propose this.

02:36:21Okay thank you Councillor Hayward do we have a seconder for that proposal Councillor How do you wish to speak yeah I can't see any objection highways haven't objected have we discussed it with never well I can't see them objecting anyway it's a bridge you know it's part of the highway network hey Lane's got one just similar you know it best one in the world so many things make this positive we've just got to put up with the highways unless Devon County want to change their opinions yeah if you can do it in five seconds um Roy has shown me a letter that from from a British rail saying about the bridge uh someone I want to do development there in the past and they objected to it but it was in 1973 yeah I'm not sure a letter from 1973 would necessarily be material as a planning consideration even even even 30 years ago that's that's older than I am so so we have a proposal from we had thank you council Collins we have a

02:37:48Proposal made by Councillor Hayward seconded by Councillor Howe to allocate the site do we have any other comments from committee Councillor Davey and it seems quite remote actually from the rest of Honiton I feel this is just adding to a kind of ribbon development to the east of Honiton and the yeah there's some other houses there but it seems quite a long way from the center of on it and and I'm not sure about access according to Devon County Council is poor pedestrian and cycle access and only a narrow road I have some misgivings about this site and I don't really feel it's a suitable one for allocation Councillor Hayward very quickly thank you and thank you for your for balance yet um just in response to Councillor Davey um and and declaring my own interest that the garage immediately adjacent to this does service my car so I parked my car there and walked into honning quite a few times it is I mean I've got a lot longer legs than some but it's a five minute walk

02:39:08It's a five minute walk into town certainly suitable for um cycling access um and once you are on the Moncton Road by those existing dwellings that have been built you feel as if you're in the built up area so you are, it's so on the cusp of it I personally, that's why I'm in favour I'll take all your points on this you are essentially in Honiton at that point thank you. I think I tend to agree with Councillor Hayward, it's about five minutes from my favourite cafe in Honiton ok any other members wish to speak on this one ok Okay. We're going to go to a vote then on the proposal by Councillor Hayward, seconded by Councillor Howe, to allocate the site. All those members in favour? I count nine. Those against? And I'm guessing we have two abstentions.

02:40:10Two abstentions okay that is carried then that brings us to honey 15 back on the west side of the town and I have lost my place in the papers uh I have been [member of the public] levy registered to speak uh no it's objectives first members of the public Good morning. I say some of you recognize me here. I'm an officer at the council for good or bad. Some of you are looking at me. So, yeah, I don't know if I need to register that, but I am speaking as a personal capacity here.

02:41:02And also the fact that Lord Ali has not bought me a pair of glasses or any clothes today. Okay. Good afternoon, Noel. Now, I wasn't sure which version of my speech to bring with me today. to object again to this protected site, as up to four weeks ago, just prior to the working group meeting, it was Honiton 01 and a second-choice site. Then, unbeknownst to the public, it was presented to the local working group mysteriously as Honiton 15 and tripled in size.

02:41:31Then, a few days ago, it magically reversed back to Honiton 01 or 15, I'm still a little confused, and back to a single field. Both these adjoining fields were put forward but rejected for inclusion in this plan at the outset. and did not appear on any of the Commonplace documentation or maps. The public's only option was to comment on the single site. Assumably, as expanded it to all three fields, made it a carbon copy of the previously refused planning applications by Gleeson, which had hundreds of objections included in the town council and refused for multiple reasons by this council and officers alike.

02:42:08Only scant reference has been made to this and without any detail. Concerning you, your latest version of the pack now says the adjoining fields are to be discussed at a later meeting. Democratically, this should have come to you at the same time, like all other allocations. So why the fragmented piecemeal approach, and why does this site seemingly be singled out for a different method? Residents feel this time the definitive plan is to get that middle site assigned, knowing councillors will be strongly urged later to include the other two, as they would be required for access.

02:42:41That's a clear developer-led approach. Now, I have nothing against Gleason. They have a job to do. But they are purely a land promoter in this region, not a developer. This appears to be a pure land speculation to raise the value and auction off to the highest bidder. So promises of timescale design should be taken lightly, as a finer owner may have different ideas to what's presented and achievable.

02:43:03Throughout this plan and previous ones, and somewhat unfairly, you are often accused of not listening to your residents and going ahead anyway, and this all just being a box-ticking and very much developer-led undemocratic process. But prime example is this site and all the last-minute switching and changing, seemingly to stack the cards. Now adding the closed-shop working group meetings without minutes or full scrutiny is what saddens me as a public servant.

02:43:29The poor optics and lack of transparency just reinforces our community's apathy, suspicion and loss of faith in us all. I know you have an incredibly difficult task with this but before you unnecessarily dispose of another very large chunk of our beautiful national landscape family silver please look closely under the bonnet as what's gone on here and not just kick the tyres if you have doubts please reject it as it appears more to this site than its treatment has been presented and likely to raise interest in inspection anyway and it will also go some way to return confidence in my decision to enter public service from a corporate world where similar games are played but much more importantly to restore our residents trust in us as public servants and this process thank you thank you [member of the public] could you turn the microphone off please um I should have done this before we started but I'm going to come to uh mr Freeman to explain what's gone on with this site because there was an error in the production of the reports um so mr Freeman uh thank you chair

02:44:35So yes with this site the agenda was originally published with uh honey 15 taking in the two adjoining fields the east and west of this site which as the speaker said the central part was originally honey 01 in the Reg 18 consultation on the draft plan um subsequent to that consultation the two adjoining fields were then also submitted into the process but obviously they weren't consulted on at the same time with the the draft plan um so that caused some questions when we published the agenda about the status of the adjoining fields in the process so I felt it was simpler to remove those from the agenda and just focus on the land that has been consulted on through the previous consultation through this process and we will need to take some legal advice and look at how we deal with the adjoining parcels of land through this process and potentially bring them to the wash-up session in a few weeks time while we're on that I should highlight there are other sites have been put forward more recently as well a small number that

02:45:37We also need to consider how we deal with those through the process because obviously the usual process would be that sites would be consulted on through the draft plan stage and then carried forward but we have had a couple of sites have been put forward later in the process and we need to understand how we deal with those and the joining parcels here kind of fall into that category so it's not that they they are in the process um and we will bring them to members in some form but I didn't feel it was appropriate to do that today given uh the concerns about how they've been not been consulted on to date so we're just seeking uh members views on the central part of the site which was honey01 is now honey on the score 15. um no I don't think there's any oh except that plan on the screen yes so yes apologies adding to the confusion so this is um what we're referring to now as honey 15 for the purposes of today is that central part of

02:46:39The wider site but noting that the adjoining areas have been put forward in the process but are not for consideration today hopefully that's clear apologies for the confusion just to check then members members are members abundantly clear that the site that you see on the screen now is the one that you're being asked to consider for clarity Mr Freeman is the recommendation to allocate or not the recommendation is to allocate as per the papers so the reporting papers is correct okay so the reporting papers is correct this is the correct map which does appear in the updated agenda but was wrong on the powerpoint that you have just seen and the original agenda that was published are members abundantly clear on what we are discussing now rather than silence can some people nod at me please okay thank you members uh we then uh are going to go through the rest of the public speakers I have [member of the public] [member of the public] you're voting on one site today, the confusing Honey 015. These fields either side were hastily

02:47:53Withdrawn this week to go through due process. So let's not lose sight of the subtext that what you're really voting on today is the future of the fields right the way across from Sidmouth Road to Heng Lane. Three times we've been here before. 2013 application was turned down. The decision notice was signed by Mr. Freeman. In 2015, the reworked application was again rejected on the basis of major development in an AONB, the visibility of the height up the slope.

02:48:29Both of these reasons were applied to HONI 04, which has just been turned down. The development would not assimilate into its surroundings. Any benefits arising from the provision of open market or affordable houses are not considered to be exceptional and would be outweighed by the significant and irreversible harm to the landscape. The decision notice was signed by Mr. Ed Freeman. The NPPF, as well as giving national landscapes great weight and the highest level of protection, states that permission should be refused for major developments other than in exceptional circumstances.

02:49:13The only things that have changed since 2015 are the reduction in housing numbers. Well, actually, it still said 133 up there. And the government's targets going mandatory. In a protected landscape, 79 houses, 133, is still a major development. and it's hard to see how you can justify including these sites in the plan to meet government targets as exceptional reasons when you have voted to exclude a number of sites that are not in national landscapes.

02:49:482023 public consultation over 80 residents objected. The sustainability appraisal report recognises this as gate 3, 3A land. the best and most versatile farmland. As pasture land, these fields would sequestrate some 240 tonnes of carbon per year. 133 houses would generate around 1,077 tonnes of carbon per year. Surveys have identified protected wildlife in these fields, including indication of eight rare or vulnerable species of bats in June this year for the Devon BAT survey.

02:50:32In summary, there are years of consistent and strong opposition from both public and EDDC against the permanent destruction of this national landscape, the loss of productive farmland and its protected wildlife, and its imposing housing development. We continue to ask you to protect it by excluding it from the plan.

02:50:58Thank you for your attention. Thank you, [member of the public]. Councillor Valentine from Giddisham Parish. Welcome back. Could you use the microphone, please? Sorry. Just a little bit concerned, sir, that Honiton 15, as shown on that plan, is actually not in Giddisham Parish. I was attending today, on the basis of the previous sighting that I had, of the entirety of the land between Sidmouth Road and Hain Lane, because half of that would have been within Gittisham Parish.

02:51:40Having said all that, I'm not going to add any further to the excellent presentation that's just been given. Okay, thank you, Councillor Valentine. We come then to Councillor Jenny Brown. Jewel Hatter on this, is that okay? So the first bit's Huntington Town Council as a town councillor. You're still only going to get three minutes, but be my guest. I can turn it off and put it on again, because I just said that.

02:52:17And I can ask Wendy to mute it, so... Right, okay, so the EDDC Local Plan was put before Huntington Town Council Planning Committee on the 3rd of January 23. they replied on honey 01 unhappy proposed site is within the NOB and development of the site would adversely affect the landscape and the site's ecology two previous planning applications for the site have been refused and the reasons for refusal are still valid at no point was honey 15 consulted on. Then as a ward member these fields coming into Honiton from Sidmouth are very very high visible. They are beautiful fields they should not be built on. I would like to see the committee ask for this to be taken back and looked at legally with regards to the Honi 1501 and find out what actually has gone on with regards to consultation and I would like to see it not allocated or moved on thank you Councillor Brown Councillor Collins thank you heath field estate

02:53:46Should never have been built heath field farm was owned by alfie ford it was a lovely dairy farm he sold it to costum who built the houses there I was a member of Honiton town council When we were consulted back in the early 80s, I was the only town Councillor To vote against. Houses been built there. Could I ask you just to focus on the site at home, please?

02:54:18[Passage not reproduced here. It contains allegations or strong criticism of named people or the council, made at the meeting. We don't repeat allegations; you can hear the passage in the council's own recording by playing it from this point.]

02:55:03[Passage not reproduced here. It contains allegations or strong criticism of named people or the council, made at the meeting. We don't repeat allegations; you can hear the passage in the council's own recording by playing it from this point.]

02:55:41And just simply because of the ambiguity and the changes. And personally, I'm unsure about consulting on this one or even proposing anything that that takes us forward I think this is a for me is a definite move move on this can be reassessed we can get some further information when we've done that digging around so for me it's proposal to move on thank you Councillor Hayward is is that I saw two hands go up at exactly the same time so I'm gonna take Councillor Collin Brown as he was already registered to speak is that seconding yep do you wish to say anything further well I mean the sight stains out like a sore thumb if you're driving from Sidmouth into Honnison as you're going down the hill before you get to these houses you look across to the left and you, sorry I paused because you were talking carry on I was just getting some clarification for Mr Freeman yeah I mean you're coming down the hill you look across to the left before you even get to the farmhouse

02:56:52As you can see that field and you can see it all the way down the road to get to the roundabout almost. You know, it stands out like a sore thumb. It shouldn't be allocated for properties. It's in the AOMB. Let's keep it in the AOMB. Oh, sorry, national landscape. I'm so used to calling it the AOMB that it's like calling the Prime Minister, isn't it? But that's another thing.

02:57:19That's what you're calling it. Yeah. Do you need a minute, Councillor Brown? sorry I mean it just shouldn't be allocated okay Councillor Blakey did you still wish to speak yes just to say that I'd like to support the proposals but with a slight addition which is that this should be brought back to the committee uh when we have an opportunity to invest it or to look at the site as a whole including the um the fields to the east and the west so that we can look at it in a round rather than Councillor Brown you did second are you happy with that yeah okay so the substantive proposal then is to move on but bring back to the wrap-up meeting does anybody else wish to speak Councillor Ledger sorry I missed you no nature so I tend to agree completely council of Brown I don't think that the the site at all even with the three sites together looking at either option should be allocated it's so prominent in the area and if you look at it just individually it's completely landlocked so there is

02:58:50No access to it you have to knock down buildings or create a further access way into it mr. Freeman oh well I think future I think the highways comments refer to access through from the adjacent development where it does say accessible from a three seven five six in the throat and home language doesn't have access to but I think there is a gap left isn't there in the existing Street through there which is a potential access point so it is accessible yeah just about did you have anything else to add council ledger no it does from the satellite view yes and Councillor Jung yeah this seems to be a fellow sandwich that and we haven't decided what the um what type of bread we've got on either side so now um I I wouldn't be able to support this at the moment and we need to look at further detail of how this can be delivered thank you Councillor Jung Councillor How and then Councillor Bailey thank you chair I just want to pick up the appeals that

03:00:11Be mentioned unfortunately the appeals relate to our current existing Local Plan our new Local Plan is meaningless in or correction appeals will be meaningless in a future Local Plan if these sites got allocated just to explain the scenario because that's the new policy rules that appeal inspector would be then reading through not the existing ones so that the line moves but I'm happy with the recommendation as it stands and feel we should move on Councillor Bailey thank you chair well going back to previous discussions today there was great concern shown amongst Horton councillors and others about more development to the west and away from the town centre well this site is proposed and it's going to do exactly that if this site's accepted the site next to it adjacent to the main road will be the next one and then the other fields next to Giddisham 05 it's just going to create a larger area there which is not desired by local people so I would have to vote against it thank OK, thank you, Councillor Bailey.

03:01:34We have a proposal then from Councillor Hayward, seconded by Councillor Brown, to move on but to bring this back to the wrap-up session once we have some more clarity. Do any other members wish to speak? No? OK, in which case we'll go to a vote on that proposal to move on but bring back all those members in favour. That's not quite unanimous. No, Councillor Bailey's hand isn't up. So that's 10. Can we have hands again, members, just to be sure? 10. There's 10. Those against. Those against. You can't vote twice. Those against won. OK, so we will move on, but bring it back then.

03:02:25That brings us to the last site in the Honiton report, which is G.H.E.D. 39. I have no members of the public registered to speak, so we come straight into committee members. OK, well, in which case, I'll go. I have to say I broadly agree with the officers' recommendations. I don't really like it or particularly want to, but I think on balance, I'm happy to propose from the Chair that the site goes forward as an allocation in accordance with officers' recommendation.

03:03:08Sorry, yes, in accordance with officers' recommendation, A only, just for clarity, and that we move on from B. Do any members wish to speak? Councillor Hayward.

03:03:19Thank you, Chair. Again, it's another one that in all circumstances, in a better condition in national planning, we wouldn't even be considering, but it is close to development that's already arisen, albeit that particular type of development there. And at the far southwestern point, we're almost adjacent to where we've just considered an application. I do agree that the the lower section southern portion 39b it isn't appropriate it's too big and too open but reluctantly I I second your proposal that we uh we do go along with the recommendation for the northern parcel 39a thank you Councillor Hayward don't think I could have put it better myself any other members wish to speak no okay uh in which case we need two votes here uh so the first is the proposal from the chair is to allocate site 39a the northern side members all those in favor please I count nine okay those against that's two any abstentions don't think so no okay so 39a is uh goes forward as an allocation in the Reg 19 plan

03:04:52And then the proposal for 39B is that we move on all those members in favour. That's unanimous. OK, that brings us to the end of the Honiton sites then. It is one o'clock and members, excuse me, are members happy that we power through the three Dunkerswell sites and then break for lunch? Or would members like a five minute? OK, we'll we'll power ahead then with Dunkerswell, [member of the public].

03:05:22Uh you'll see three sites at dunk as well on the map before you and we'll move on to the first one of which is dunk 01 dunk 01 I like these site references okay uh we have then first up an objector [member of the public] sipple good afternoon um you've taken me a bit by surprise because I thought this one had been moved on a long while ago. I'm actually here to talk about Dunkerswell 5. I don't know why this has come back but so I'm at a loss. Okay I mean if you don't wish to say anything about Dunko 1 or Dunko 2 then you don't have to. You're on my sheet so I've I've called you up. But I was told, asked here to talk about Duncan's Row 5.

03:06:26When I appeared before you before, O1 and some of the others that were there were dismissed. They are proposed for a rejection by officers, but we still have to consider them here and go through that process. Well, I'm happy to take questions, but I think you should decide there. Okay. I'll come back to 5. Okay, that's fine. That's totally fine. if you could just switch microphone off brilliant thank you very much uh we have then yes yes yeah I've got town and parish council yahood is it point of order or something okay I'll take that what I want to register an offense in the service of the council it's a traffic offense I drove with my car this doesn't sound enforcement officer into Dunk 04, where it says there's no access for public highways, so I've obviously committed an offence. I just wanted to register it. Thank you, Chair. Not quite a point of order, Councillor Levine, but okay. And Dunk 04 is also not on the agenda, but there we go. I have Councillor John

03:07:46Barrow for the Parish Council. Okay, then we'll go through one and two first, and we'll come to five in a moment. I have you both down for all three of the sites. So apologies for the confusion there. Okay. Committee then. Dunk 01, the recommendation is not to allocate Councillor Ledger. Propose to move on, Chair. Okay. Councillor Brown, I'll indulge you seconding that one. Anybody have anything to add on this one?

03:08:18No. Okay. The proposal from Councillor Ledger seconded by Councillor Brown is to move on. All those members in favour. That's unanimous, which brings us to Dunk 02. Councillor Ledger proposed to move on. I saw Councillor Brown first again. Councillor Howe, do you wish to say something? No, no, okay, ready to vote. Okay, the proposal from Councillor Ledger, seconded by Councillor Brown, is to move on. All those members in favour? Okay, now we come then to site Dunk 05, and I have first [member of the public].

03:08:56Good afternoon again. Okay, so I did come and speak to you all before, and I raised a couple of points about the road passing the proposed site as being dangerous. Highways have refused extra warning signs because driver visibility was limited, and the police felt that the verges were unsafe for speed watch groups. I mentioned the lack of pavements put pedestrians at risk coming into conflict with traffic and to be honest all these points were shrugged off with phrases like it's not our problem or what do people do now I left the meeting wondering if not East Devon then whose problems are these locally we decided that we had to prove that there was a problem and to that end we mounted a traffic count the results of which show almost 4,000 vehicle movements daily passing the proposed development during our 11-hour survey.

03:10:06If you add on the hours that we didn't cover and weekends, the road, which is designated C25, carries a very high volume of traffic. We believe that this count gives an accurate view and we'd ask that before this application moves forward, an official traffic count and speed monitoring survey be conducted. East Devon felt that a pavement was not required as people lived there already. Again, we conducted a survey by post and email of those residents living along this stretch of road and found very few of them actually walked the road to access services on the Highfield estate.

03:10:46Some did, but they admitted they had no other means available of getting to those services. Every survey returned contained complaints regarding vehicle speed and the increasing size of heavy vehicles. Blackdown Medical Practice commented privately to our questions regarding the strain being felt now in Dunkerswell and throughout the practice area. We strongly feel that East Devon should consult with Blackdown Medical Practice. At our last meeting, Councillor Brown and I both asked why the land at Lewy Way was not being used in place of this application, as it is much more suitable.

03:11:26The committee appeared to lack knowledge of this, yet bungalows have been built. They're there now. They've been administered by Live West, who are a partner of East Devon. So the land's there. It should be used. We ask that you take note of our input today. please ensure surveys covering traffic volume, traffic speed tree surveys, environmental and archaeological needs are taken and please consult black down practice Our councillors here have all the documents that we've produced to allow this to go through without the requested surveys would put future residents into daily conflict with a busy road would possibly reduce medical services for all and the lack of pavements will effectively leave the proposed homes isolated from the community and services.

03:12:19The lounge should be left as it is. Use Louis Way instead. Thank you.

03:12:23Thank you, [member of the public]. Councillor Barlow. Good afternoon and thank you, Chair. I don't want you to think of us as NIMBYs, but we have just over 1,000 dwellings in Duncasville, 62 affordable homes and as you probably don't know the sewer was built for 450 homes it's giving problems now so please don't make it worse the water pressure in dry times is quite poor in Duncosville and some places need a pump to fill their tanks in their roofs when it siphons off to Honiton if you don't, perhaps you didn't know that the pipe comes from Duncosville to Honiton one blip at the Timberton pumping station and Drunk Dunkle is dry.

03:13:15I understand you need homes. You can have your 43 homes. There's nine being built at King's Meadow, which is site four. Just been built, not all rented yet. Five homes on the Bowling Green under construction. Three in Powell's Way. King's Meadow got room for another 15 plus. And our pottery is begging you for 20 houses. There's your target of 43 houses without going on to the Duncasville 5 site with all the problems it will cause.

03:13:49And I'd like to know how could you replace the biodiversity of this site? Two sides of TPO beech trees, very tall, plus a few oaks. The roadside is 250 or plus oak trees with bats and 2,300 other species living in them with a meanity of value of probably £30,000 each. I have maintained the footpaths in Duncosville for the last 25 plus years and know every yard of them, so I know that it would be utter madness of the suggestion to enter footpaths in the bottom corner of the field on the footpath too.

03:14:30The only way to enter that footpath is from either end as it is now. this site will cause issue of problems with roads sewer water biodiversity all this can be avoided by using the site four which is already started and is basically a brownfield site plus the fact that our pottery is begging you for some homes thank you very much thank you Councillor Barlow Just worth noting the question of our pottery we will be looking at in the subsequent meeting at that wrap-up meeting as we've advised the Parish Council.

03:15:10But just because the Parish Council is asking us to put some homes somewhere doesn't give us a reason not to put them somewhere else, bearing in mind the shortage that we have against the desired figure. I'm going to come to Mr Freeman, who I think has some insight to offer us on the highway situation. yes thank you I was just checking on the highway situation which has been raised by the speaker um the highway authority are advising us that an acceptable access can be obtained from the southern access point onto onto the public highway uh for uh vehicular traffic and the northern access would only be acceptable can you repeat that [member of the public] microphone is slightly closer.

03:15:51Apologies, can you hear me now? So I was just checking on the highway's comments because of the concerns being raised and the Highway Authority have advised us that an acceptable access can be obtained for vehicular traffic from the southern access point to the highway. The northern access point, they're saying, would only be acceptable for pedestrians and cyclists. So just to clarify that. Thank you.

03:16:14Thank you, Mr Freeman. We come then to the landowner or developer, [member of the public].

03:16:25Thank you, Chair. I had hoped to say good morning, but good afternoon. My name is [name removed]. I'm Land and Planning Director at Summerfield Homes, based in Taunton. I'd like to set out some detail that your officers, in making their recommendations to you, are not yet currently understandably aware of, which I hope the committee will find helpful. In terms of access, we have an informal agreement from Devon County Council as Highways Authority on the proposed vehicular access at the northern road frontage access point, where the old football club changing rooms were.

03:17:07I'd be happy to share that with officers and members. Devon County have confirmed that our access drawing accords with its requirements in terms of design, geometry and visibility. They have also confirmed that a plan which we have prepared, showing a new proposed footway linking with an existing pavement within the existing adopted highway, is acceptable. Using this northern access point avoids any disturbance or loss of trees subject to the TPO.

03:17:43We specifically wanted to avoid conflict with the two mature oaks at the southern road frontage. these are both retained in our proposal and protected the assessment for you refers to the hetero removal as we are removing as we are avoiding sorry the hetero along the southern road frontage we would hope to minimize this I recently submitted a pre-application inquiry to your development management colleagues which included a tree survey, a high waste technical note with plans, an ecology, a BNG note and a landscape and visual impact assessment.

03:18:30We also presented an indicative layout showing 43 dwellings. I received a response from the case officer earlier this month which concluded that overall subject to the issues identified and the highlighted being taken into consideration and given the anticipated timescale for the submission of a formal application as set out in your inquiry letter I am of the opinion that the proposals could be viewed favourably by officers upon submission to the council for consideration.

03:19:06Thank you. Okay, thank you [member of the public]. Worth noting for members' benefit that pre-application advice is just that. It's not binding and it's the opinion of the officer that's given it even though it does get looked at obviously we come then into committee I had a feeling Councillor Brown might be first you are indeed the parish in this case are not NIMBYs or notes if you know what a note is, not over there either they are just pointing out the problems with this site the road is dangerous there's no footpath, car's speed In fact, the police went there on two separate occasions last week for two one-hour sessions, individual sessions.

03:19:57That was in the week prior to the 18th of September. And they caught 27 motorists speeding outside what would be the entrance to the site. And I've got a copy of the police report that says that. There's no pubs, there's no school and only one shop, which is a mile from the site. The children have to be transported up to 10 miles to schools in other areas from the age of five.

03:20:25That puts pressure on Devon County for transport and even more so if extra homes are built. There's a limited bus service which the report picks up on. There is no pavement and considering the speed of the car this does make it extremely dangerous. If Duncanswell is to have new homes let it be at the top end of Lewis Way in the village built up area which there is a development of nine bungalows that are being completed by Live West in association with East Devon.

03:20:57The developers are saying, further development is planned. Why isn't this not being put forward on East Devon call for sites? I've lost my place there. It moved. I think planning officers should move this on and ask the planning officers to bring the land at Lewis Way forward to this committee, or the 86 mobile homes in Hornbeam at Lewis Way, which can be lived in for 50 weeks of the year, and a large majority of people live there full time.

03:21:45They should give them residential status, and that will bring 86 more homes to East Devon numbers. The roads and infrastructure are already in place. This would be a quick win and worth pursuing. Therefore, we should look at the top end of Lewis Way and move this on and save time, basically, and get the officers to look at the two alternatives which are there. We should be more better for, or we'd be a lot better for East Devon and planning.

03:22:14Thank you. Councillor Neveen. Thank you, Colin. I haven't got much way to what Councillor Brown says, I would like to say second his proposal to move on and to ask officers to consider site of war, which has been discounted because there's no public access.

03:22:41And as I said before, I've committed a crime. I actually drove my car along the road into it. My big problem with this application is that I'm here to represent the residents of East Devon. And here's an application which goes against their wishes, but on the other hand, there's an alternative site that they propose where they're going to work with. So what are we going, for me, the committee has got really got to decide, are we going to force something down the throat of the community, against its wishes, or go with the community and see whether we can actually accommodate everything within the site that we've got here north of Longway.

03:23:34And for me, there's just no question, work with the community rather than against it.

03:23:39Thank you. OK, thank you, Councillor Levine. I'm going to come to Mr Freeman at this point to clarify why Site 04 doesn't appear on the agenda and what the situation is there. so thank you so cited for as it has been said was discounted to the sifting process because there was no vehicle access to the highway just trying to find then if you want to put yes I call it just goes yes so this is so I don't underscore zero four as it was submitted to us and this is this is actually on the website this is the the HELAA report that looks at that site so you'll see in terms of the not accessible from public highway is the highway authorities comments so it's been sifted out at an early stage because there was no way of gaining access from the highway uh all I can say really is if speakers here today are saying that that's not correct and there is an access to it then we can look at it again but it hasn't obviously

03:25:10Been through the process of assessment at this point um I would also say um that it it does plan doesn't really help but it does stand slightly on its own as you can see from the immediately adjoining fields there is some development to the north from the caravan park a small field apart to the south but it is more detached from the existing built form than the site that we're recommending for allocations before you hopefully that's helpful thank you [member of the public] not coming back outside committee now that we're in discussion sorry okay if there's an issue with highways comments and officers can take that away and look at it but we are not considering dunco for now or today it's not on the agenda we're considering dunco 5 and we need to consider that site on its merits and in the context of the wider requirements of the plan making process as I say officers can take away the dunco for issue and have another look at but we have to make a decision about

03:26:19DUNCO 5 on its own merits and in the context of those wider planning considerations. Recommendation please. You already have Councillor Brown. I would say take this away but it can come back once we've looked at 04. I'm pausing there. I don't think we actually legally I don't think that would be an appropriate recommendation to make because we're not telling you that dunco4 is going to come back we're saying officers will look at the highways issue on dunco4 and confirm whether or not highways officers comments are correct so it might we're not saying it it will I'd be reluctant to move forward with that as the substantive motion um and [member of the public] nodding at the sites top end of lewis way which said we've got the nine bungalows on.

03:27:17The developer there said further development coming. Fine. That may well be, but on the basis of the fact that officers have not, that that's not the information that officers have in front of them from the statutory consultee who is supposed to know what they're talking about. And I deliberately use the word supposed in that context. I think it would be much more straightforward if we just... If the motion is to move on, then the motion is to move on, fine.

03:27:52Yeah, I think it's been said. Okay, who else wants to speak on this site? We have the proposal from Councillor Brown, seconded by Councillor Levine, to move on. We've not actually debated, I don't think, the merits of this particular site beyond the ward members' comments. Okay, I'm going to say something then. I think actually we've allocated much worse sites than this, particularly in high-waste terms. the visibility is very good 4,000 cars in 11 hours is only six a minute that's not actually a huge number I I know we're not considering a planning application in front of us here but the developer has said highways have indicated that pavement is achievable to link up to the existing one I'm struggling to see that there are substantive grounds for us to turn this one down given what else that we have allocated I we don't we don't have a highways objection Councillor Davey oh sorry um yeah I know some concerns about this site in terms of pedestrian access because there are no pavements and And footpath 2, I'm not sure whether that would give access to the village.

03:29:24And does it? No. So I'm not sure what access to footpath 2 would actually gain, nor, it seems to me, is it in the developer's gift to provide that access, since they don't own the land that actually adjoins the footpath so yeah I'm a little concerned that yes it relates well to other buildings it's simply tacked on to more but I do have concerns about pedestrian access unless you can get into the other sites that are there and I'm not sure that you can I don't see how you can get pedestrian access into the the town or service village as we're calling it it does look as that has a few facilities but I have concerns about how people would access those it's no five seconds um you you will not get access from the footpath that's there the farmer will not give it in fact he's a bit like roy I've got to say no his cows are more important okay they're not they're not going to get access we'll leave it there thank you

03:31:00Any other members wish to speak Councillor How I just wish to pick up Councillor Davey comments we have many rural communities that don't have footpaths and everything else and that's the fundamental issue we are putting development in places we don't want to but we have little choice to this is a service village like many others people in these communities are used to not having footpaths and that's the fundamental issue in a perfect world none of us would do it But this is not a perfect world and we really need to be mindful about what we're trying to do and achieve and make sure we're making the least worst decisions.

03:31:57And to be honest, this isn't some of the worst ones we've seen. I'm going to come to Mr Freeman now to explain what is possible regarding the pedestrian access in light of the comments that we've had from the agent and for members today.

03:32:28Thank you, Chair. So it's true to say that there isn't a footpath across the frontage of this site and there's quite a distance from this site to, I think, the north to the nearest footpath. But if Matt can give me the screen, if I show you on Google Street View, there is quite a wide grass verge alongside the carriageway, so the site is just down there where the cursor is.

03:32:50You've got quite a wide grass verge along here alongside the carriageway, which I understand is highways land right the way through here so you can see there's a grass verge right the way through along here until you get to here then you've got the garage with its full court and area and then the footpath is there so it is theoretically possible I would suggest within the highways land to create a footpath that runs along the road from the site to the existing footpath there so I think a footpath access to the site is achievable and it's within the developers minds as they take the site forward so I think that is achievable just clarify then if we did allocate in a planning application then came forward could we secure that footpath by way of a 106 or similar agreement yes it could certainly be secured and obviously they'd need to reach agreement with the highway authority as it involves works in their lands in the section 38 agreements to secure that but yes it can all be tied up and secure

03:34:08Okay thank you mr. Freeman for that additional context Councillor Levine and then Councillor Hayward I really would like to counter what mr. Freeman just said because yesterday I took my car for an MOT at the garage and because I didn't know quite how long it's going to take I did an experiment I actually walked along the footpath alleged footpath. My trousers were torn because I had to jump into the hedge a number of times two enormous doors came two different ways There was no room for me anywhere. It is not an easy path to go through. In theory, yes. In practice, the lorries that are thundering through that road going off to the businesses on the airfield just fill up the road. You can't get rid of the lorries because they are needed economically. That road is not wide enough for footpath in the traffic and I've got my tone trances is living proof I hope you didn't bring them as an exhibit to present a committee Councillor Levine Councillor Hayward thank you Jack this particular application is this

03:35:32Allocation and sums up the the unpalatable nature of what we are being expected to do we are having to allocate sites that ordinarily you wouldn't but the option is if we don't we don't meet our numbers someone else will allocate them for us we've had speakers from the floor from ward members we've seen to indicate that there are alternate sites so I don't think there's any you know dyed in the wool objection to additional housing growth in dunk as well just essentially not here so the village seems to be at saying it or the parish it can sustain a little bit more um most settlements eventually will reach a natural maximum that they can sustain but I mean compared to some of the the parishes and and and facilities um in my neck of the woods and dunk as well has quite a lot I've driven through this this part of the world many many times my children used to live in african and I was routinely driving through here um and it's a beautiful place and I checked the defib here for about five years so I know it very

03:36:40Well um it comes back to what is possible and whether or not it's palatable or desired it's possible so in terms of uh pavement and pedestrian access you know at the top of this site you have Jenwood Road and there is a group of garages at the very southwest corner of Jenwood Road. Essentially it's just garages. Now I appreciate they are someone's garages but effectively if you were to punch a hole through there you've now created pedestrian access right into the centre of the village from a development. There still would have to be car movements yes but as you've said chair the number of car movements on that road is not out of context with a road of this nature in a village a settlement of this size it's a road that everyone will use it's a great straight road straight roads have speed issues every straight road in our in our district has speed issues especially the rural ones so if the county has an issue they can install some speed mitigation measures they can slow the speed down but I am completely really tired on this one

03:37:46Because it is a neat compact site it doesn't really make the the village coalesce into anywhere else it's an extension to the south of the village. There's already houses to the west of the site, and there's a natural boundary. The developer, the site applicant, proposer, has sort of said that they'll be mindful of the ecology here. Next to it, you have that glorious farmer's field below Warden Road, which is absolutely jam-packed with biodiversity.

03:38:17So again, this comes back to this point. we are being asked to make these unpalatable decisions and they are going to be unpopular with some I don't see what choice we have because if we don't allocate these sites someone else is going to do it for us so I think this one with some creative perhaps some developer insight and developer negotiation I think you could overcome the pedestrian element of it other aspects will be a bit more challenging. Thank you Jen.

03:38:49Thank you, Councillor Hayward. Do we have any further comments on this site? No. Okay. The substantive proposal at the moment from Councillor Brown, seconded by Councillor Levine, is to move on from this site. I'm going to take us to a vote now on that. The proposal is to move on. Can I ask all those in favour of that proposal to move on, please? I count three against can we have hands nice and high please one two three four five and those abstaining one two three does that add up that's correct okay uh so that proposal falls do we have another proposal okay I will propose from the chair then to allocate in accordance with officers recommendation all those in favor for okay those against three and those abstaining for I think that's possibly the most divided vote that we've had on any site in this process so far um but the motion to allocate passes a way passes 43 anyway there's no tie in which case that brings us to the end of the morning session

03:40:24At 30 25 minutes to two uh we are going to break for 45 minutes for lunch so we will be back then at 20 past two

00:05:46Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome back. Welcome to those that have joined us and indeed members of the public as well. We are about to consider a site in Axminster and Surround. So without any further ado from me then, over to non-committee members. I believe some might have some declarations of interest. Yes. Sorry. Thank you, Wendy. And we have two new committee members as well.

00:06:18Thank you for reminding me of that. Any declarations to make, councillors, Collins or Bailey? No? Okay, we're good on that front. And from outside committee, any declarations to make? You all need to use the public speaking microphone. Am I on? Yeah.

00:06:41Thank you. I have an FXNRI in relation to pretty much all of the Axminster sites as a member of the Axminster Neighbourhood Plan Steering Group.

00:06:51Thank you. Again, likewise, also on the neighbourhood plan. I also am a project manager for a community housing project on 11C as well. So I've declared that via email already, but I'm also verbally saying that we don't own the land or anything like that, but we have engaged in a discussion that's currently one way with the landowners of 11C. Okay, thank you both. Attempt number two then for me to pass off the mic to [member of the public].

00:07:38Thank you. So we're going to start off with the town of Axminster. Hopefully the screen's now working and we'll move straight on to start off with site G-H-E-D-80, which is recommended for allocation.

00:07:51Thank you, [member of the public]. Just for the benefit of members of the public present, is it worth a few comments briefly on how we got to this point? Yeah, so the process we went through was very much one of starting to collect information about sites through site submissions, going through an assessment process of those sites, sifting out those that failed some basic tests to arrive at an objective position on the suitability of sites potentially for development.

00:08:17This was seen within the context of a planned strategy that we have, and also very critically, a need to provide for specified numbers set out in government rules. So there's an element of top-down strategy and what the government are saying we need to provide as a minimum, and there's a bottom-up element, which is the site assessment work that we've undertaken. And that has led us to the recommendations from officers that are before you.

00:08:44Okay thank you uh [member of the public] before we dive into the site specifically then for the again for the benefit of members of the public and any members who've not seen one of these meetings before um once a site has been considered by committee you will hear one of two things either a motion to allocate uh which is as it says on the tin or a motion that we move on uh which for the purposes of today is a rejection however uh you will all no doubt be aware we have government mandated targets to meet which if we do not meet the plan will be dead on arrival um so there's going to be a wrap-up session in mid-october at which if we've not already reached the numbers by that point we may need to revisit some sites that we've previously moved on from hence the legal advice is to avoid us being up the creek without a paddle as it were to move on rather than to reject so just to explain that one before we get going with that all having been said then we come to the first

00:09:48Site in Axminster under agenda item 7a gh ed 80 and I have first Councillor Sarah jackson chair I do apologize and this might be a bit unconventional but I wonder whether you might consider taking this particular site at the end of the agenda and given that sites 22 and 24 are fundamental to the viability of this site and they're right near the end of the agenda they relate to access really to this particular site sorry for the delay folks having consulted with officers

00:12:15We're going to take the suggestion and do gh ed 80 after axmed 22 later on officers aren't of the view that it's dependent on 24 um so the the agenda later on will go 22 ghed 80 and then 24 um but we will move on for the time being uh that having been deferred till later on to ghed 83 which I believe also starts with Councillor Sarah jackson uh many thanks um if you would permit me just to grab some notes thank you um thank you um obviously this uh particular parcel

00:13:21Of land has been subject to a recent planning application um it would probably be remiss of me to say at this point there wasn't really one that I supported for a variety of different reasons and not least that it's not covered by our current Local Plan it falls outside of the current built up area boundary and there are a host of issues around flooding and biodiversity and drainage and sewage that I particularly wasn't fond of but needless to say that application the outline application was approved and I feel at this stage if it would be a fruitless exercise trying to oppose it in inclusion in this Local Plan given that should that lapse at any point and it came back it would probably be considered favorably having already uh achieved outline planning consent um so I'm certainly not keen on this particular application but I I feel we are where we are now uh many thanks thank you Councillor Jackson Councillor Smith anything to add no okay uh in which case then we come into committee any comments Councillor Hayward

00:14:38Thank you chair um I do echo what um council jackson has said I suppose I did have I was gesticulating earlier um if I might just the two points of clarity one [member of the public] outlined the process of how we got to there and outlined the numbers it was just clarity for the members of the public here that the numbers are national numbers that there are no quotas for towns effectively that's for the committee to decide thank you, that's just that point of clarity there was also the issue of the site sifting when we get through this there are there were two sites and I'm wondering what the mechanism is, there are two sites within what we're considering that I believe should not have been sifted out particularly two car parks belonging to East Devon and from the discussions we've had earlier in about Honiton and about town centre brownfield usage I believe we're missing a trick by taking those out of this stage in essentially by considering fields where we have town centre locations that are already concrete.

00:15:45So I'm not sure how we, whether we can do that with wash up. Appreciate we're not projecting, we're moving on. Almost I'd like to do the reverse. Where we've discounted, I'd like to bring those back into discussion because I believe we're at such an important point of our planning process for the next 18 years. We can't discount things that are there. so that's just something to weave in the only other point on this one again agreeing with Councillor Jackson is it won't have passed anyone's attention from looking at the agendas for Exmouth, for Limston for Honington, for Sidmouth, for Seton that if you look at the potential allocation site map for Axminster most of it's green, every other town it was mostly red so I just really want to bring people's attention to that and I will be there's some points I've make later on but this is you know it's important day for Axminster and I just want everyone if he can to be mindful of our job as strategic planning but also mindful of what this means for a very

00:16:51Small town thank you thank you Councillor Hayward does anybody else wish to speak on this site Councillor Brian Bailey thank you chair seems to me to be a long way out of town if my memory serves me right it's a very steep hill so as Colin Brown said earlier so I can get down these hills I can't get up them so it seems a long way from school town center amenities I'm sure it's probably beyond the 1,600 meters but we usually quote I don't know if that's been assessed it it will have been I can't quote the report off the top of my head but it will be there in the papers for you Brian okay thank you that's my only objection thank you thank you Councillor Bailey I'm going to propose from the chair in view of the comments we've had an officer advice that this site goes forward as an allocation um does anybody else wish to speak Councillor Ledger it's just on a wider point of clarification for the whole of a lot of this uh sites that we're going to be

00:18:12Considering this afternoon do come up in the the phosphate issues area and we haven't mentioned that at all I know it's with the work that we're doing it's not a large concern because of the plan period that we're talking about but I just hope that someone can give a brief explanation as to the issues present and whether they are part of the considerations that we're making today.

00:18:37Mr Freeman. Thank you Chair. So yes, Councillor Just right. There are obviously issues in the Axe Minister area at the moment in terms of the impact of phosphate discharge on the River Axe special area of conservation. We were instructed by Natural England, I think two years ago now. that we could only grant consent within the catchment area of the river Axe for developments that were classed as nutrient neutral, i.e. they wouldn't detrimentally impact on phosphate discharges into the special area of conservation.

00:19:10That means that it's fair to say very few residential developments have come forward since that time within the area. obviously the Local Plan is covering an area from 2020 to 2042 so we have to assume that we will have answers and solutions to those issues as we move forward and in fact we've made a bid for government funding a few months ago about four and a half million pounds of government funding to help to address those issues and deliver projects to deliver mitigation we wait to hear the outcome of that in the meantime some developers are pursuing their own mitigation in fact I think I'm right in saying the application that's in for this site GD 83 seeks to mitigate its own issues in terms of phosphate discharges so that that is certainly an issue I don't think it informs necessarily particular sites or even the quantum of development in this process because I think we have to assume that we will be able to deliver the mitigation that's needed and obviously in terms of the acceptability of the Local Plan we will

00:20:18Need to be able to do a Habitat Regulations assessment that demonstrates that we can make that acceptable so but it's useful context that members understand those those issues and what's being done to address them okay thank you mr Freeman any other comments before we go to a vote on this site no in which case the proposal from the chair is to allocate ghed 83 all those members in favor please I see 11 and it's nice night please members 11 in favor those

00:21:07Against one abstentions one okay that takes us to 13 which is that right 13 or if I just missed it should be one two three four five six yes I am right okay good the maths adds up excellent yes very good okay uh that brings us then to Axminster o1a okay very good uh and I have Councillor Sarah jackson um many thanks um initially uh just a comment in reference to [member of the public] um uh note about um

00:22:09Phosphate mitigation and a proposal for a plan that's awaiting approval and as an Axminster ward member I haven't been party to any of the proposals that have been put forward on that one which I feel is a shame um nonetheless moving on to this particular application and a couple of comments which actually relate to all of the allocations um considered by Axminster I think in the initial report under item seven there was references made to the population growth in the Axminster area as being now at a population of 6,000 but the 2021 census data actually puts that at 8.1 thousand which is obviously significantly higher than the picture that's painted here. And I do think it's important because it has a bearing, therefore, on the commensurate infrastructure that that would have required. And whilst the infrastructure that's referenced in that report may have been an appropriate amount for 2011, where the population was much closer to 6,000, it's certainly not the amount that is required in 2021 and certainly moving forwards. And the infrastructure that's referenced as good, I query that as well, given

00:23:42That we've seen a loss in the sixth form at the school, a loss of hospital beds, of dental provision, a loss of all banks, a reduced bus timetable, an increasingly unreliable train service, we've seen a worsening situation due to other pressures on local services and the loss of a youth centre. So the picture has changed considerably and that's in light of what is essentially a 41% growth in the population since 2011. It also needs to be considered that of East Evans total growth, Axminster has contributed in that 10 years about 13% despite occupying about 3.2% of the land of East Devon. So I just want the committee to consider that when we're looking at the applications here, it's a bit of a different picture from what you've had in front of you to consider. But this particular application here is proposing employment sites and that's something that I can support. I do think that we need to take in some considerations and mitigations as suggested by the officers around the heritage and the stop line way elements um

00:24:59And also to consider the impact um on conservation moving forward but I think that the site to the north being left as suggested which we'll come to shortly um would provide that thank you okay thank you Councillor Smith anything to add no okay uh in which case we come into committee then any comments no okay in which case um I will propose uh the officers recommendation for o1a which is not as it says on the slides that it is not recommended for allocation officers are in fact recommending that o1a is allocated uh so to be absolutely clear that's an error on the slide and the proposal from the chair is that o1a is allocated are we all all clear on that okay brilliant any further members wish to speak no okay in which case we come to a vote on o1a then all those in favor of the proposal to allocate that's unanimous o1b then which is not proposed for allocation and we have oh I don't have a separate entry for o1b Councillor Jackson Councillor Smith you might want to just reset the microphone so the timer

00:26:30Restarts sorry I should have hit the button when I left um thank you very much um I think uh the officer's recommendation here to to refuse that into allocation into the Local Plan is sensible I think the risks outweigh the benefit here um given its flooding situation conservation all of those elements I think that's the right move moving forward thank you Thank you Councillor Jackson Councillor Jung I propose we move on from this one no sorry we take the recommendation to not proceed with this slide proposal to move on from Councillor Jung I have Councillor Hayward happy to second that Can I just ask, just a bit of clarity, there's reference here, and a lot of these questions are going to be from members watching, members of the public, and perhaps some from members of the committee who aren't as familiar with Axminster.

00:27:31There's a reference there for, consider putting in the settlement boundary. Would Mr Freeman or [member of the public] just be able to outline the issue of settlement boundaries? Because at the moment, we have a settlement boundary. Axminster's neighbourhood plan, nascent neighbourhood plan, had a settlement boundary, and it's question of if what is approved today is that going to form the new settlement boundary then it stops or is it going to be a bit more fluid just if I could just ask for a clarification so we're all 100 assured on what we're going to do with that boundary in the future thank you but happy to second Councillor Yes thank you chair so the intention across the board would be to incorporate these allocations within the settlement boundaries um so that's part of the reason why work is ongoing on those because obviously it's going to be informed by the decisions that are made through through this process so yes I mean in this case the settlement boundary would be logically extended out to include this site if allocates so as a I suppose the opposite of that if this committee

00:28:34Decides not to allocate is that to say that the settlement boundary will go around where they would have been or essentially a revert back to you didn't allocate them so it stays where it is I don't know off the top man where it is at the moment but it's if we if the resolution is not to allocate the site then logically we wouldn't include it within the settlement boundary I'm assuming the existing settlement boundary takes in the adjoining residential development um but that goes no further so it would revert back to that original line worth also adding that the settlement boundaries will come to spc uh for us to review and approve or otherwise at a later date Councillor Bailey thank you I was going to ask you about the settlement boundaries report because um I think we were told that we would have the report in september um and I'm just wondering whether that's still going to be the case it won't happen in september as all of those agendas are out obviously everything's been pushed

00:29:36Slightly um by the the need for the site selection meetings but we are yeah the policy reports are coming in october um absolutely uh in advance of that all important deadline on a date that we do not yet known but yes it is it is coming okay any other comments on this site no okay in which case I think we already have a resolution we do yes Councillor Jung seconded by Councillor Hayward to move on from this site all those in favor please that's unanimous which brings us then to AXME O2 and we have [member of the public] As an Axminster resident I strongly object to the allocation and potential development of three adjacent sites Axminster O2, O8 and O9 with particular reference to O2 for the following key reasons Access issues Access to these sites via Woodbury Park and Wick Road is impractical due to the large number of houses proposed. Planning permission for just 16 dwellings was previously refused due to inadequate roads, yet now over 430 homes are planned. Wick Road is a single-track lane frequently used by large vehicles, and

00:31:07The steep gradient of the area means most trips to town will rely on cars. Alternative access via the A358 Musbury Road would be costly and dangerous. Archaeological importance. The proximity of the sites to the Roman fort at Woodbury Farm and the ancient Roman road nearby could result in the destruction of land and artifacts of significant archaeological importance. Development of these plots risks irreversible damage to Axminster's historical heritage.

00:31:40Ecology and environment, these developments would severely affect the environment. Effectively concreting over these areas will reduce the land's ability to absorb rainfall, worsening the already existing flood risks in Axminster and downstream areas like Colliford, Colleton and Seton. Phosphate levels in the river Axe are already a problem. Building over 1,000 additional houses in Axminster could exacerbate this issue, requiring significant and costly environmental mitigation. Furthermore, main gas and electricity services run across these sites complicating any further construction efforts.

00:32:20The impact on wildlife, the destruction of hedgerows which support an extensive range of local wildlife would have a damaging effect on the ecosystem. These fields which lie beyond a natural boundary are clearly visible from large swathes of the East Devon AONB. They are extremely important to Axminster's residents for recreational walking and for their mental well-being. Last, and by no means least, Axminster's infrastructure. This includes healthcare, schools, road links, which are already overstretched and the town has been allocated a disproportionate amount of new housing.

00:33:00While building affordable housing is essential, it must be built in suitable locations. the potential development of these sites raises numerous environmental historical and infrastructural concerns that have not been adequately addressed so thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today thank you [member of the public] we come then to [member of the public] coals thank you chair simon coals of uh carney swede we represent cg fry and son which is promoting Sites 02, 08 and 09. All three sites are recommended for allocation. We support those recommendations.

00:33:51Members, Axminster is a Tier 2 settlement. It's a highly sustainable location for growth. New homes will meet a need arising in Axminster and the surrounding area that cannot be met in the West End, Honiton or anywhere else. Axpens is my local town and I've watched the town centre decline over recent years footfall from new residents would breathe life into the town support its shops services and facilities and actually address some of the comments made by Councillor Jackson relating to the decline of those facilities and it will help it make it more self-contained and indeed you've just approved 3.3 hectares of employment land immediately to the northwest of O2. In addition there is a big swathe of employment land proposed for allocation. So turning to the report before you on highways Devon County says vehicle access off Musbury Road will be good. Well our technical investigation confirms this is achievable and deliverable within the red line. The report also says the site's well located for walking and cycling connections to the town centre as well as other destinations within the town. They're all within

00:35:111,600 metre distance by the way. These are via Wike Road and two existing public footpaths through the site. Controls on vehicle movements on Wike Lane and Woodbury Lane, a point raised by the previous speaker can be secured through the master plan on landscape none of the sites are in the national landscape and no major issues are envisaged by your officers for o2 on ecology our surveys identify no showstoppers hedgerows can be retained as well as trees during the master plan as well as improved planting all effects on protected sites can be mitigated on site through master planning that includes phosphates as well there are a variety of options to deal with that and post 2030 with amp 7 then the mitigation requirements will change completely we know the comments on heritage and we agree that all effects can be assessed and mitigated through site investigation and master planning this is a totally legitimate approach and one that is used uh in a widespread way this site along with 08 and 09 are all deliverable members we support their allocation and we hope you do too thank you very much

00:36:31Thank you [member of the public] uh are we going with Councillor Jackson or Councillor Smith Councillor Smith yes um we have some serious concerns uh about some of these sites uh on this

00:36:58Side of the town whilst we know that they're within a 1600 metre radius of the town centre unfortunately all of our schools for example on the other side of the town so any transport to any of our schools in town would require car use which is not something we want to encourage at all. As referenced well by Susan Gallagher a previous public speaker there is a lot of complication on this site not least the archaeological, this is an archaeological hot spot and we think that because of that and the complications on the site if there were going to be any developments the density would need to be what it would be compromised massively to that as well so I'll use other opportunities in the near future to discuss further sites thank you Councillor Smith uh coming into committee then Councillor Ledger sorry Councillor Jackson I I assumed you were taking turns we're picking up the bits each other missed many thanks um most of what's been covered has been covered by the member of the public

00:38:15And also Councillor Smith I think it is worth noting that there are some positives to this particular application with respect to its proximity to the a35 which does provide access for people without having to go through the town centre in order to reach the main artery road however that doesn't diminish the other negatives that have been raised and Simon's quite right in what he says with respect to pedestrian access for access to schools for example if someone was to walk yes it's within the proximity of the town centre as the crow flies but actually it would be a bit of a convoluted route for someone to walk to school and the pedestrian access at the moment would probably take you through a number of footpaths through open fields which are not terribly well lit especially during the winter months so that should also be considered. I think my main concern with this application and this goes then on to the other two applications associated with the development that Fry and Son want to execute is really that we've noticed

00:39:24There are numerous constraints laid out by the officers in this report and it appears to be a very large plot particularly if you consider it with the other two sites but that would take it right up to the bypass and also with the constraints highlighted I don't actually know what proportion of the entire land holding is developable and that's important because it impacts whether we look at those numbers and say that they're actually a realistic and healthy number while still maintaining the character of the neighbouring settlements and what's there at the moment.

00:40:00So I think a greater understanding of how that might be delivered and what proportion of that land can actually be built on to still meet the mitigations required needs to be understood before this is given any great consideration. Thank you. Thank you Councillor Jackson and apologies. I'll make sure I check with both of you uh next time Councillor Ledger it was if for instance we were to accept all of the officers recommendation for today uh for acts with the sites the just trying to tackle the point of primary schools being on the other side of the town there would be the need for an additional primary school the current primary schools cannot grow further than they are at the moment there there's very limited opportunities to expand so there would be an additional I just want to get an officer to say yes that's that's what's going to happen well through chair I mean I think looking at the comments from Devon County Council on infrastructure they've said you know it may be difficult to

00:41:11Extend primary provision to accommodate housing levels beyond those set out in the current Local Plan we have to bear in mind that the existing Local Plan I believe allocates the urban extension at 650 homes which are not being haven't been delivered um so you've got that that 650 beyond that yes I think you're right we would need to have further discussions with Devon county about primary school provision and potentially the need for an additional school those are conversations that are ongoing in terms of all our settlements in terms of the infrastructure needed to support growth and development uh and as part of the work in the Local Plan we're producing a new infrastructure delivery plan which would set out the infrastructure that's needed um and you know the cost involved and how that could be achieved so that's that's ongoing work alongside the plan itself Councillor Hayward thank you chair um so a couple of points just from speakers uh both from ward members and members of the public so um I suppose the first one is to come back to the point

00:42:17Mr Freeman just made so 2019 we had 650 houses proposed in a master plan but with that acts minster was getting a relief road north south relief road a new school nursery provision green space um a little community hub for 650 so that was the quid pro quo so now you're looking at a more segmented 1,100, 1,000, and there's nothing on the table. There's no balance to that at all in terms of infrastructure. I'm delighted Councillor Ledger raised that because it's important, and it comes back to the point that Councillor Jackson raised about infrastructure degradation over time. One of the speakers mentioned that, like field of dreams, build them and your high street will be regenerated. People will come, will flock to your high Street? Well, since 2005, Axminster's delivered. We've done our share. We've delivered 1,200 extra houses. And yet, when I walk through our high street and talk to retailers, they say, it's only tourists that keep us in business. We're not getting local shopping. Because what we have done is a bit like

00:43:33Honnerton, Sausage Town has gone north, east, west. Axminster's going north, south, because that's the geography of the town but you are essentially sending people to the far periphery to the north and in this proposal to the far periphery to the south away from that town centre so when they want to recreate shop eat they just hop on in a car and they jump on a road they jump on the A35 they get onto the A358 they jump on a train or they get to the airport and jet off somewhere nice and warm but they're not in so they're not coming into the town centre so this this this myth that just by having more population you will reverse stagnation doesn't wash I've seen it we've seen it in the town it doesn't wash we've lost infrastructure we've gained people we've gained houses we've gained demand but we've lost the actual infrastructure and I and within all of this I don't see how you are going to reverse that it's it's nice to think hope that it will

00:44:32Come but there's nothing in here that makes me think it will come so that's that point you know I can look at these land when you look at the map of activity you can see why developers are interested these great sways of agricultural land um not built on and you can see developers thinking well why why why are you not building on this land Councillor Jackson raised a valid point about uh the a35 and the bypass about what section of when we get to those applications is actual developable land because that matters in terms of density Act Ministers' density, up to 2005, was about 19 houses per hectare, units per hectare.

00:45:11If you were lucky enough to live in Raymond's Hill, it was four, blissful. Since then, we've routinely put in 30, 35, 40 units per hectare. We're cramming them in. And whilst I can accept that, and I'll come on to those when we talk about the town centre sites, where you can go up on a standard footprint because people are already in the town centre, in the periphery, in the fields, that, for me, is inappropriate.

00:45:40It should be going down as you move out of the town, as you become into more rural areas, not increasing. So if you look at these sites and you think, OK, well, half of it can't be built on because you're going to have road noise and there's streams running through it, so there's flood zone issues, then actually your 18 hectares becomes nine. and I appreciate our methodology of account and dwellings is a standard methodology but it's just this density matters to people because it's not attractive you're simply just herding people into a small space but I revert back to what we talked about and this was pertinent to the Dunkers' Wall application these are unpalatable decisions we're making if we do not make them someone else will make them for us and I'm very mindful of that and whilst it might not be popular or find favour, it's what we as committee have to deal with.

00:46:32This site, you could manage the pedestrian access. There are punch-through points subject to negotiation. You could cross the road. That in itself is a slight risk, but you could cross the road and then you're in Abbey Close. And then there's a perfect footpath, pedestrian access, but you have to weave through someone else's housing estate to get to another safe point. You have to weave through Woodbury Park to get to another safe point.

00:47:00There's no direct access. And it's not really conceivable to create one on the A358. So the points raised from objectors and from speakers are valid. Yeah, you know, these are... I don't really, you know, I don't like making these decisions here, but we have to. So on balance, given that it's nearer the town than anything else, I reluctantly would propose support for o2 and just hope that the conditions that will be attached to it has come forward from Devon county and others come good and make it safe and make it secure and make it usable space but that's all I've really got to say on o2 chair thank you thank you Councillor Hayward um most sincerely um do we have a seconder for that proposal Councillor How okay thank you do you wish to speak no no okay um in which case I come then to um actually I'm going to come to uh mr Freeman first um obviously this is part of a group of sites on the south side of the town we've heard they're all controlled by a single developer um I'm assuming in

00:48:13Terms of any infrastructure provision um master planning we'd expect that all three would be looked at together as part of a complete picture yes I mean obviously today we're looking at specific sites in the parcels that they've been put forward and considered through this process but yes I think if members are minded to um allocate this group of sites the southern area the town uh then in policy wording we'd be looking to secure a master plan of that entire area that then helps us to then lock down how that's delivered how that's phased how infrastructure is provided footpaths and link routes provided as part of that process so there's a coordinated approach to it certainly. Thank you Mr Freeman. Councillor Hayward did you have a question quickly?

00:48:58It's very brief so I mean mindful of that that we and master planning obviously helps that holistic view of development and providing infrastructure by using economies of scale in size, if the developer chose to bring them through piecemeal, so 100, 68, 270, is there anything we can do to stop them? Because otherwise they could just say, well, I can't really expect me to deliver a new school with 100 houses, so I can't.

00:49:29So could you just emphasise how, with the best will in the world, doing a master plan stops individual site allocations, essentially getting round you know getting around that yeah I mean it sounds like the risk of that is limited here as it's in in the same ownership but certainly any master plan we can can say in the policy that has to be delivered in accordance with the master plan in a phased approach that's set out in that that master plan if the master plan sets out where the infrastructure is to be delivered and how then that is all tied up through that master planning process which is what we sought to achieve with the eastern urban extension in the previous Local Plan but obviously viability reasons that couldn't come forward Thank you [member of the public] Jung thank you for waiting Thank you I'd like to just go over some of the issues that have already been discussed one question is archaeological sites do we know that there is some archaeological underneath these sites and if if we don't and we're guessing what happens if

00:50:47They do decide they find something really interesting do do we stop development and open it up for like an open museum or what regarding sewage and the nitrate issue and the school. I understand one of the solutions of overcoming the sewage issue is for developers to either build their own sewage works or to tank the sewage and then to take it away. But where is it taken to? That would be another question I've got.

00:51:32And is that the right way to go? Or do we put gramping orders on both the issues, school and sewage, that the development should not proceed until a school is coming forward or built or sewage works coming forward or built? Thank you.

00:51:55I will come to mr Freeman in a moment but I believe we were saying that Devon county had indicated there was capacity for 650 before the new primary was required um so I don't know that we'd be looking at gramping conditions straight away but mr Freeman who is the expert um well yes that's that's right so their comments have said that um beyond the allowance in the existing Local Plan much of which obviously hasn't come before because of the east and urban extension which was 650 homes uh that they could accommodate that number in the existing primary schools through through expansion so there is some breathing room I suppose in terms of the early years of the plan of some of these sites coming forward and taking up that capacity um beyond that obviously there would be the need to deliver additional capacity we need to understand through Devon county how that's how that's delivered uh and and phased um and the site identified for that so that's conversations we would need to have for you know finalizing the allocations

00:52:56Within axiom instead depending on the total quantum of development that the committee decide is is appropriate and that's part of the unknown in terms of those conversations at this point um and obviously the educational priority strategy for dealing with that will need to flex according to the total quantum of development that's coming forward here um but the same principle applies as as you identified council young elsewhere in terms of obviously if this development is coming forward in terms of planning applications ahead of the infrastructure then we may need to utilize uh grampian conditions to ensure the phasing of its delivery in line with the infrastructure coming forward um obviously what we can't have is is homes coming forward and there not being infrastructure in place to do that um in terms of the the heritage assets um I mean I think it is slight unknown in terms of of that obviously further investigation works would need to be done through the application process um but it's would be very unusual for it to to um seriously

00:53:59Uh restrict the development on the site much of it's about um you know archiving and acknowledging what's what's what's there and removing that and cataloging that rather than necessarily holding up development so much of that detail is comes through the application process but I think the report does acknowledge that that might add to some extent impact on impact on the numbers I think the yield we've put as 100 but put that this could be reduced to avoid harms to any significant archaeological remains if there's remains under there that need to be left undisturbed and that may need to make limits to the developable area to some extent can I just come back on that one about the archaeological issue by the sound of it it could be just bits and pieces of pottery and stuff over the land and we would never know that unless we do develop it one day so it might be an advantage rather than disadvantage that could be that be the case Alma I suppose developing the site could lead lead to the remains being uncovered and made

00:55:14Available but yeah whether that's an advantage I'll leave to members judgment but I wouldn't see it necessarily as a reason to develop the site is it's a consequence of doing so more than anything so yeah hopefully that helps Councillor Davey thank you chair yeah on the subject of archaeology I'm a big fan of digging for Britain and nearly all the sites they're investigating on digging for Britain are there as a result of development, because that's how they get funding.

00:55:51Often they don't get funding otherwise, it's very limited. And modern archaeology is quite often in favor of actually just investigating the site, logging it, photographing it, and covering it up again. Possibly not building on top of it, if that can be avoided, but while that might reduce the number of houses it could still be a public open space or something like that and artifacts that were found could be removed and given to the museum so I don't think archaeology is necessarily going to be impacted by this harmfully and it could actually lead to some interesting discoveries So, yeah, I don't think it's an absolute impediment.

00:56:45Thank you, members. Can I suggest that we maybe stop digging this hole into... I'm sorry. My resignation will be on the leader's desk in the morning. It's an investigation trench. Councillor Brian Bailey.

00:57:01Thank you very much, Chef. I was listening to Councillor Jung, and I agree with his concerns about sewerage. sewerage. And you mentioned tankering. Well, I'm not too keen on that, because if it's tankering, it usually comes to Exmouth in my ward, and I get lots of... Can I just point out that infrastructure issues are widespread throughout East Devon, particularly with sewerage, and they're not really strictly a matter for today, because there are established processes for dealing with that.

00:57:31However, may I get to my point, thank you, Chair, that if this was to be developed, bearing in mind that action is the same situation as all of us, could we not put a condition on that a sewage work is built in action which is well overdue that would help cope with the situation or not? I think that's probably a question for another day when we look at the water cycle study.

00:57:59Could we bear it in mind for the future, Jeff? Certainly the comment will be on the tape. We're happy on that? well I mean we're obviously aware of the issues that have been raised as has been said you know these issues are common across the district so we need to address them through the work that we're doing uh with in this case the water cycle study and working with infrastructure providers to deliver the infrastructure that's needed to deliver this plan Councillor Jess bailey thank you can um ed or one of the planning team or the ward members clarify about the ecology and a number of the sites it says that it has the potential to cause significant major adverse impacts on a nationally recognised site of conservation importance.

00:58:53I'm not quite clear how that's being mitigated. Is that to do with the nutrients or what? So could somebody just clarify, please? Yes, so it's primarily in relation to the nutrient issues that I mentioned earlier in response to the Cancer Ledger's question. I think in this case, the site is also within the beer quarry and caves SAC back consultation zone. So we'll need to look at the back corridors and issues there.

00:59:26But it can be mitigated. It's a matter of understanding those issues. through more detailed assessment work and designing and mitigation in much the same way in terms of the Aquarian Caves we looked at in terms of sites north of Seton and the need for dark corridors, for back-to-flight paths and things like that so a lot of those things can be mitigated it will come down to the detailed design of the scheme rather than necessarily something at this stage Okay, thank you members we have a proposal still on the table from some time ago from councillors Hayward seconded by Councillor Howe does anybody else wish to speak on this site the top end of this field as such that's in Woodbury Lane isn't it? Could you repeat that Councillor Brown, Ed missed it that particular field you've got it coming out on north of [member of the public]'s Musbury Road isn't the top part of that field along Woodbury Lane does that intervention it sounds like you've been around to the site I don't think any committee members have been around to all of these sites

01:00:53Councillor Brown that would take an awfully long time any other comments about this site specifically before I take us to a vote the site next to it the white one is an old Roman settlement I believe I think that goes to the archaeological issues that we've been discussing Yes. OK, in which case then the proposal from Councillor Hayward, seconded by Councillor Howe, is to allocate AXME O2. All those members in favour, please. I see 12. Those against. And those abstaining. I see one.

01:01:36Okay that brings us then to uh we're taking these slightly out of order on the advice of mr Freeman so next up is axme 08 because it's immediately next door uh and I have on the other side of my sheet of paper um [member of the public] did you have anything to add to your earlier comments okay thank you very much uh so members if you could just bear in mind [member of the public] comments from earlier on today we then have Mr Coles anything to add really quickly chair thank you very much thanks members just to note that 08 and 09 we acknowledge do rise up slightly from the valley floor and that's noted in the report and what we say to that is that the development would follow pretty much the identical pattern of the way Axminster has evolved over the years which has started off towards the valley floor and has moved up the hill um and and and so this this really uh means that developing 08 and we can come on to 09 as well really is

01:02:57Consistent with Axminster's settlement pattern and its character just to pick up a couple of very quick points um we've talked a bit about uh infrastructure and master planning um I can confirm a master plan approach and maybe recommend and it's for you to decide members not me a single allocation dealing with the sites that you want to include here and what I can say for those of you who don't know CG Fry and Sun they do things properly okay they they commit and I can commit here on their behalf and their planning director is standing sitting behind me it's a full engagement with the Town Council throughout the process and full engagement with the community they are it's something they are really hot on we like that that's why we like working with them so that's something that is a commitment just in terms very quickly the connections completely agree that this scheme would have to face Axminster and not face away from it and key to this is the quality of the walking and cycling connections to the town and that

01:04:06Can all be done through the master plan again constraints it can all be done through the master plan through further surveying assessments and and and that would happen through at the more detailed stage thanks members thank you [member of the public] Jackson yes Councillor Smith that's fine there's two main issues that bother me about this particularly is is mainly we've discuss the built-up area boundary changing in response to how we or how you guys in committee decide to respond this is significantly I would say significantly changing our built-up area boundary for Axminster bringing us quite a long way there are obviously advantages to the approach that's just been mentioned but there are many things out of control of a developer that you would need lots of other third-party support with as mentioned the access uh to by by foot and by cycle would not be good as a keen walker runner and cyclist in the area I can tell you that doing anything along that that stretch of road coming out of Axminster is perilous and so those are the things I want to highlight again uh they will be reflected for both sites

01:05:39Thank you Councillor Smith Councillor Jackson thank you chair um I agree with what uh simon has said in terms of uh other parties requiring input here um I think we need to be really mindful about Woodbury lane um it it wouldn't be suitable as an access by a car user to a site of such a significant size and so better access off of Musbury Road would be it must be delivered in that respect if you are going to develop to this scale again I stress again we still are looking at numbers here where we don't actually know how much of that can be developed we've got lots of constraints here we've got the and on the next item as well again reference to the A35 and residential close to that we need to be really mindful about pollution and noise so that's going to have an impact on how much of these sites we can in good conscience suggest are developed and so the numbers of the collectively of all three sites stack up quite high and I do think the committee here need to

01:07:04Be really mindful of that impact thank you thank you Councillor Jackson uh I have then I've lost my place on the page actually oh wait there we are I have then committee Councillor Hayward thank you chair um yeah I mean this is a valid point so you know I I proposed the last one that's gone through um personally for me um that is enough for the time being for this part of town uh eight and nine for me are unnecessary certainly the access from wick road isn't possible so therefore you've got to come in a different way uh council jackson mentioned uh Woodbury road uh currently serving two estates uh Woodbury park and what we call Brunenberg and a little cul-de-SAC of Athelstan, about 200 dwellings.

01:08:03And the road back to the 358 essentially goes past the town council's allotment site, a very narrow road of which Devon County have decided that they don't want to put double yellow lines down, so it's used as a parking bay for the houses opposite. So essentially it's a single track road. So that Wick Road continues as a single road all the way up where it becomes Woodbury Road, Woodbury Park Road, until it joins the Musbury Road.

01:08:32Completely unsuitable for another what could be 400 dwellings, possibly 800 cars, delivery vehicles, emergency vehicles, service vehicles, visitors. It's just overwhelming, overwhelming at this time. So we come back to this. The gentleman mentioned organic growth. Fine, let's have some organic growth. We just agreed to potentially 100 there. That's an organic growth. That is still a significant hike on Axminster's numbers. I come back to this point. Axminster's played its part. It's added 40% in two decades. What's being proposed now is another 30% in the round across the whole town. That's too much, too much, in my personal opinion.

01:09:18So on this, I'll listen to what others have to say. At the moment, I'm not minded to support eight, and I'll get to nine when we discuss it. But, yeah, the challenges for this site are a bit more meaty than the other one, so I'll leave it there, Chair.

01:09:38Thank you. Councillor Hayward, any other members? Councillor Howe? Yeah, and fully understanding what Councillor Hayward said, but, and this is where the big but comes, we are strategic planning. We have to look at the numbers, and that's what we're doing as part of our Local Plan, but also looking strategically after what we've just said about access. if we lump these sites together, lump's the wrong word, but nevertheless, if we combine these sites instead of doing them individually and get them masterplanned, all the access could be done through the A358.

01:10:16But you only get that chance to do it once, and that's when the first site, the one that will have the access, does it, if you get my meaning. Otherwise, you're making it a lot harder if it's not planned from day one. personally as much as I would rather say we didn't meet this site I am here thinking this site would be better if it was merged with the other site and we made a critical mass and made the access and everything else arrangements correctly and so I will make the recommendation that we approve this site but any of these sites we approve after the first one which we've already done needs to be merged together and taken as one allocation and a master planning exercise and can't go forward as individual sites so I'm happy to move that thank you thank you Councillor How anybody wish to second that Councillor Jung I did see your hand first do you wish to speak thank you yes I understand Now, all three sites really need to come forward at the same time, not developed all at the same time, obviously, but if we're going to get the infrastructure that we need at the right time, in the right place, we have to approve all three.

01:11:47Therefore, that's the reason why I'll be supporting Councillor Hayward. Thank you. Councillor Jung, do any other members of committee wish to speak? Okay. I have a question, if I may, for Councillor Hayward. Obviously, there's significant growth proposed on the south side on officers' recommendation and also on the east side. I just wondered if you were up against a wall with a weapon held to you, which would you say is the least worst?

01:12:31If you don't want to give an answer, then feel free. I'm just interested in your thoughts. I suppose, Chair, we have a duty to have deference to you. That gun was held to Axminster 20 years ago, and we took that bullet to the head. And now you've pulled out another revolver, which we're now facing again, having just recovered from the first injury. So I'm afraid I can't answer that question.

01:13:04You can't go west because that's the river. You can't go north too much because you're in a different parish. Essentially, you go east, you come into Hawkechurch, and we'll discuss Hawkechurch parish later. There's a lot against the principle of going to the east, a lot of technical data, and I appreciate there's been a master plan. I suppose Axiom's has been around since 300 BC, which does answer Councillor Jung's question about is there anything you can ask a lot of you.

01:13:35Oh, there will be. because we've been around nearly two and a half millennia. But in essence, the topography to the east does not lend itself to housing. That's why people haven't built on it. And we'll get to that later on when we get to 22, 24 and 80.

01:13:52Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councillor Hayward. Possibly a slightly unfair question of me to ask, so I'll apologise. And please don't feel the need to show me deference. Nobody else does. um that being said then um we do have a uh proposal validly made and seconded from Councillor Howe seconded by Councillor Jung to allocate axmi 08 um so unless anybody else wishes to speak I will take us for a vote on that okay uh all those members in favor of allocating axmi 08 then didn't didn't really want to vote that way but there we go um those against please one and those abstaining one okay that allocation is carried then uh which brings us to axme 09 um [member of the public] comments having been heard uh [member of the public] did you wish to add anything no okay Councillor Jackson Councillor Smith I'm gonna stress very similar things to the last time, so I'm not going to repeat that bit. However, this is the one which banks onto the A35. You really do need to give that close consideration. The topography of the land means

01:15:34That that is going to be very audible. For context, I live in the swathe. See, you've got like a swathe of green space that goes beyond where the allotment site is. I don't know whether the officers can point where the allotment site is on there and then you've got like a wedge of green land that meets up with the red allocation on there you've got those it's duke sway swain close area I live there I can hear that road it's quite a lot further away I also really really do want to stress at that point when you were considering allocation 83 earlier Councillor Bailey pointed out it's quite a long way away from town this is even further many thanks thank you Councillor Jackson Councillor Smith nothing to add okay thank you uh which brings us then into committee yeah go on then Councillor How I I I will follow on the same train of thought and accepting what Councillor Jackson just said but this morning we put we approved alongside the A30 at Aniston, right alongside the A30 at Aniston. The concerns she's raising are actually

01:16:57For a full planning application, not for this strategic Local Plan. It is to say whether the site's developer or not. We believe it is. Obviously, officers believe it is. And following the same vein, to make the whole set complete, I will again go with my recommendation to approve this as per officer's recommendation. But again, with the same proviso, if accepted, it needs to be done as one master plan with all three sites, not one.

01:17:31Councillor Jung, who appear to be in Westminster. The bells. Yeah, I fully support the recommendation from Councillor Howe. If you go for 02 and 08, you have to go for 09 as well in one major hit. okay that's a proposal from Councillor Howe seconded by Councillor Jung then do any other members of committee wish to speak on this site Councillor Davey well at the risk of repeating things yes the the three sites only make sense if you allocate this one because it is the main access to the a35 there are going to be constraints on all three sites and so I think it makes sense to master plan them, to ensure that we provide suitable public open space, SANGs if necessary, but certainly open spaces, play areas and so on.

01:18:42And again, I do feel there is some merit in going for large allocations rather than small piecemeal ones, in that you're more likely to get some decent facilities in there than smaller sites. So, yeah, I'll support it.

01:19:04Thank you. Councillor Davey, any other speakers? Councillor Hayward. Thank you. I think you probably could guess the way I feel about this one. I mean, if you develop this, it will be immediately visible. And I take Councillor Howe's point, the one that was proposed was a relatively small allocation compared to this. If you are at the far southeast corner of this and you have a child of school age, you're going to need a car.

01:19:36We are going against the principles of active travel. You are not going to stick them on a bike. You are not going to let them walk to school from here. That's just incomprehensible. The fact that there is no other residential building per se along there until you get into Raymond Hill. And then, as we mentioned earlier, you are at a density there of four houses per hectare.

01:20:01That essentially is a you know it's a ribbon development of very prestige beautiful houses it's not an estate development and yeah thank you Thank You Councillor Hayward any other comments okay in which case we have a proposal from council house seconded by Councillor Jung that this site goes forward as an allocation into the draft plan all those members in favor please I count eight okay those against please three and those abstaining one okay that allocation is carried then uh which brings us to Axminster 07 and I believe Councillor Ledger has a declaration to to make yes yes my father's business rents land off the landowner of this site and the business is situated directly next to this site so I'll leave the room he's satisfied with that mr. hunter

01:21:38Directly relates then. All right. Okay. Okay. Thank you both. Councillor Hayward.

01:21:47Thank you. Could Mr. Freeman, using his magic notepad, just let us know where we're up to at this point? Would that be okay? As in how many houses have we allocated? How many have we now allocated at this point of the process for Axminster? Thank you. I think my magic spreadsheet might be more useful for that. so out of the effectively the urban extension we've just allocated across previous three sites that's four hundred and thirty eight dwellings and then about four hectares of employment land between gh ed 83 and axmi o1a although obviously ed 83 is coming forward mostly it's residential in planning isn't it so a few more than 438 and about three hectares if that sums it up okay uh ask me oh seven then I have councillors jackson and smith hello again um I think it's really important for the committee to understand that myself and I can speak for Councillor Smith and probably Councillor Hayward in this that we are not anti-development we're actually pro-appropriate and organic growth we're not against the development of brownfield sites or town centre density

01:23:23This is one of those sites where actually the principle I can get behind and the current site has been probably not put to best use in respect of the the carpet site that occupies it at the moment isn't in full use part of that property hasn't been operating at full capacity for quite a long time and providing that the housing can be delivered on the part of the site that doesn't flood and that the employment area is something that's not going to pollute the river axe we can get behind development for both residential and for commercial here and particularly I think it can accommodate density and I concur with Councillor Hayward's point around the sites that are taken out in sifting I think there is more scope for some schemes to come forward that again could accommodate more housing and also the provision of amenity and I think there is also some others within east devons control that might also be considered similar sites to site 18 that you're going to look at later on which is a garage site

01:24:41There are other sites like that um so the principle of this one we can get behind thank you Thank you, Councillor Jackson. Councillor Smith? Okay, nothing to add. Thank you. Which brings us into committee members. I think we can all probably get behind the idea of some nice high-density residential development here. I see nobody wishing to speak, so I'll move from the chair to allocate this site in line with officers' recommendation.

01:25:13All those members in favour, please. That's unanimous. Okay, which brings us then to, can somebody get Councillor Ledger, please? Okay, that brings us then to Axme 10, small site in the middle. and I'm on the next page of my sheet and we have Councillor Jackson or Councillor Smith you're keeping us on our toes at least yes this is another site that is close to town has the hospital site near it and would be a good thing about we support development on this site we think housing could be utilised in this location it's downhill from an easy journey into town so yet there are plenty of reasons to support development in this location. Thank you Councillor Smith which brings us into committee then members. Councillor Hayward. Thank you chair I'm in support of this I mean it's currently it became a building that fell out of use for a variety of reasons it's now had a bit of a resurgence a rebirth and it's a great little community hub but that the the owner of it has said to the occupants of that community hub that it's a short to

01:26:59Medium term thing so it's great while it lasts but it was always sort of earmarked for some residential development it is an extracts means the hospital no longer an inpatient hospital owned by NHS property services there are TPOs it's alluded to in the report there's TPOs on a significant number of trees to the east where it sort of comes into a triangle in the southeastern corner for me personally that this is a this is a missed opportunity and given that our housing targets are coming down from central office from government and that effectively the secretary of state for the health owns nhs property services I believe he or she I can't remember who it is now is the sole she is the sole shareholder or director or whatever um I think there's far more opportunity on this this is one of the sites actually where I go against the grain and say you could get more than five dwellings on this what actminster has a need for is the smaller dwellings that Councillor Ledger referred to earlier you could build on this site a sheltered

01:28:10Accommodation block by using some of this fairly underutilised parking. Yes, it is used from time to time, but as Councillor Jackson says, you can create amenity, retain parking amenity, and still build residential dwelling amenity by being creative. So this site is on level ground. It's walking distance into the town centre. It's on a bus route. It's next to a hospital. it is crying out for a more creative use than just five standard dwellings because if you were to put let's say 20 30 dwellings there single you know single occupancy one bedroom maybe on the higher up two bedroom you could free up a whole swathe of other properties in the town that helps restart keeps that housing market moving so I think with some creativity and if we as this authority can go to the Secretary of State, I don't know how we do it, and say, you own NHS property services, tell them to give up a bit of the car park and make this site worthwhile to build on and not waste an opportunity, make the most of it and actually help towards our housing

01:29:20Numbers as a consequence. So I do support this. I know the people who are occupying it now and they'll be quite sad when it goes. But it was a bit of a derelict blight on the landscape for quite a while so I will be supporting Jeff thank you Councillor Hayward I've just conversed with mr. Freeman and officers will have another look at sites like this one in terms of the numbers between now and the wrap-up session because we might gain a couple of percent in that obviously it's not like we're gonna get 100 houses on this site but no I think we all completely agree with what you've just said the sifted out sites yeah yeah no we'll officers will take another look at those as well but I mean specifically in terms of density for sites like these now we will have a look at those numbers so that we're not unnecessarily making our task harder than it needs to be have we had a recommendation on this site my mind has gone black Councillor Hayward okay

01:30:36Councillor Ledger seconding that okay does anybody else wish to speak okay we'll go to a vote then the proposal by Councillor Hayward to allocate seconded by Councillor Yit Ledger we're on Axme 10 okay all those members in favor please that is unanimous okay in which case then it is 15.50 now we've been going for about an hour and a half so we'll take a 10 minute break until four o'clock members okay welcome back members um next up we have uh 11c and 11d um they're grouped on

01:44:04The slide but we will take these individually starting with 11c so councillors jackson and smith as with my declaration I will um talk but then I will leave so that I'm not too intimidating yes the site is um so it comes to this med as when you got details I know you've spoken to me about it yes and I also sent it in when the email originally came out about declaring as well so I think I've probably covered all of my bases hopefully but ori yeah yeah um yes this is a small bit of land within a bigger bit that's been uh that I have been in conversation with officers to see if there was a feasible bit in this bigger slot because I have been looking at it in fairly good detail I also know there are some constraints on this site that haven't been declared as well there is a high pressure gas pipe that's running under a section of 11c that was pointed out by an architect who has done some preliminary work on the site so I thought

01:45:23That was worth mentioning that it hadn't been written and mentioned to this point. This site is very well located to the rest of the town. There's good footway access and there are plenty of positives for it. I do believe because of some of the constraints on this site that the density isn't quite right with this site. I think it would be hard because there are two sets of pylons going over this site as well that it would constrain what you would actually be able to get on the plot of land you'd actually be able to build on the benefit of looking at a community housing project is that density wouldn't necessarily be and profit is not necessarily the it isn't the main priority for when looking to develop I think that's all I'll say at this point and I will leave just very briefly just to pick up on that gas main point Mr Freeman um well just to say I think we need to do some fair investigation into that. It doesn't come up on our system as a health and safety

01:46:33Executive safety issue, which suggests that if there is a pipeline there, it's not one of the main, the really main ones, for want of a better word. But we'll need to check into that given Councillor Smith's comments. Is it a point of order, Councillor Ledger? No? Okay. In which case, Councillor Jackson, did you have anything to add? no okay thank you very much that which brings us then into committee members silence Councillor Ledger with 11c I'm happy to propose acceptance subject to officers checking that there is no high pressure gas line going through the site I think I'm happy. Well, I see hands out here. So, Councillor Hayward.

01:47:32I'm happy to second on the basis that has been pointed out. This is a quintessentially town centre application. It lends itself to a sympathetic and appropriately sized development. It utilises a parcel of land that is commented upon, or the access to the parcel of land is commented upon routinely as just being a blight on the landscape and it would make good use of the piece of land that's been put forward and it has great active travel links into the centre of town so again I'm happy to support Thank you Councillor Hayward Does anybody else wish to speak on this site?

01:48:15No? Okay, in which case we have a proposal from Councillor Ledger seconded by Councillor Hayward to allocate site 11C or those members in favour please that's unanimous ok does somebody want to let you know Councillor Smith is welcome back in, thank you Sarah that brings us then to site 11D which starts with as is the norm councillors Jackson and Smith hi many thanks my notes are over there I'm going to wing this one I stand by the officer's recommendation I don't think this is an appropriate swathe of land it's not ideal for a whole host of different reasons some of which have been laid out here I could build on that but I hope that the members of the committee will take it on face value thank you thank you Councillor Jackson, Councillor Smith okay nothing to add thank you, into committee Councillor Ledger I take great pleasure in rejecting Okay, thank you both.

01:49:36And I will take great pleasure in taking us to a vote on the proposal by Councillor Ledger, seconded by Councillor Hayward, to move on from Site 11D. All those in favour? That is unanimous. Which brings us then to Site 12. Chair, can I make a declaration about Site 12D? Absolutely. I believe Site 12 may be owned by Devon County Council and therefore as a Devon County Councillor I'll declare an ORI and remove the room Thank you Councillor Bailey I have for Site X-Men to 12 Councillors Jackson and Smith It's probably worth saying again for a wholeness that part of 11C is a paddock that's also owned by DCC so it might be worth rolling over that declaration that was made just then for my fellow Councillor For 11C as well.

01:50:41For this site, this seems like a fairly feasible site for development, barring the look and proper feasibility studies into the junction and entrance onto a very busy section of the road. There is a Catholic primary school to the right of this site. There is AXMIS, the primary school, which is a couple of hundred metres up north of this. And then you've got the secondary school, which is a couple of hundred metres.

01:51:15So it's a cluster of three schools, and this site gets very busy. So the location itself for building is probably prime. You can see it's probably described as infill. and, again, got no problems with supporting the premise of development on this as long as proper road connection is looked at.

01:51:38Thank you. Councillor Smith. Councillor Jackson. Thank you. I think looking at your map, it's a little bit dated. You'll see there's an empty space just off of Lime Close there. That's actually been developed already, so there is housing sat there. I concur with Councillor Smith's assertion though that this would be a fine location for development but I do hope that when this does come forward some consideration might be taken into how to better lay out the access from the main line road there.

01:52:20Mindful there's an awful lot of junctions there so the children traversing up and down need to traverse a lot of junctions and I wonder whether fewer junctions but better laid out might be the way forward thank you thank you Councillor Jackson I'm sure officers can take a note of that one uh into committee then members Councillor Hayward um thank you chair um just as um central government removing the proposed grant for the relief road, essentially killed off the chance of the north-south relief road a few years ago, Devon County Council selling off this piece of land and the piece of land 11C pretty much signs the death warrant for the inner relief road, which was potentially going to try and alleviate some of the town centre traffic by bringing them down Stoney Lane immediately to the north, above that sort little triangle to the top northwest corner and then it would have traversed all the way down through the route of 11c 11b sorry 11d but it's a moot point now because they're going to sell this and potentially build houses on it so

01:53:31Echoing the ward members I do get quite a few complaints about access and overgrown hedges so actually if this were developed the hedges at the entrance would disappear and I hope Devon would be very very strenuous in their demands for a wide splay probably help people at field end as well because they they struggle sometimes to get out on a busy morning but with good access good pavements I think that's a constructive use of a essentially underutilized site it has got some eco habitat so perhaps you know when we get to the planning stage if it comes forward, some conditions on replanting, just trying to maintain as much of the eco habitat on there as we can, but otherwise, support, Chair.

01:54:21Thank you, Councillor Hayward. In view of that, then, I'll propose from the Chair that this goes forward as an allocation. Anybody else wish to speak? No? Okay. In which case, the proposal is to allocate Acts mid-12. All those members in favour, please. That's unanimous. Can somebody retrieve Councillor Jess Bailey, please? I think she went that way. OK, ask me 16 then. Councillors Jackson and Smith. I think the officer's position on this one is the right one.

01:55:17I think it would be a crying shame to lose this as a town centre shopping facility. appreciate that the current occupant might not want to keep it as such indefinitely but I think it would provide potential opportunities to someone else should they decide they wanted to dispose of it as its current designation so I would like to see that retained rather than it be converted to residential. Thank you.

01:55:49Thank you Councillor Jackson Councillor Smith. The only thing I would like to add at this point really is that this is it kind of borders one of the potential sites that we were talking about in terms of East Devon garage sites so when you are reviewing what might not have made it through the sifting site the the garages that border this site would be worth looking into okay thank you Councillor Smith I'm having those heard those two comments and finding myself in complete agreement I will propose from the chair that we move on from this site.

01:56:31All those in favour? Everyone seems very keen to get through these. That's unanimous. OK. A nice, easy decision. Axme 17, land at Millway. Councillors Jackson and Smith. I'm getting in. It's fantastic.

01:56:55Thank you very much. This has already been identified as a site for housing development through Cabinet a couple of years ago, but I think even before then. My only concern here is that we might be missing a trick. Like the site that Simon's just mentioned, there is a garage site there to the southeast. Equally, there is a site currently occupied by allotments, and there's the community centre.

01:57:25That's all within East Evans land holdings. Equally, there's a site north of that, which is, but it's not connected to this directly. I do think, actually, a scheme that looks at the entirety of that plot could deliver more than is being proposed here. equally it should if designed correctly still also provide provision for allotments and a new community centre which is what cabinet considered previously so I think when looking at this in the round that actually looking at the entire site there may provide better opportunities but I support the proposal for residential development there although I would hope that cabinet's position on that which was to try and deliver social housing there would would be followed through thank you I think I probably speak for all members of the authority when I say that's what exactly what we'd like to see come forward and if it is East Devon land I'd see no reason why I couldn't um also worth also worth observing um as it's within the built-up area boundary there'd be no policy um problems with those extra areas coming in anyway um whether or not they're allocated

01:58:39Into committee then. Councillor Jung? As recommended. Okay, that's a proposal to allocate in line with officer's recommendation. Seconded by Councillor Brian Bailey.

01:58:54Thank you very much. Anybody else wish to speak on this one? No? Okay. In which case, all those in favour, please. That's unanimous. Axminster 18, Milway Garages. Councillors Jackson and Smith. You are welcome to just stay up there, if you like. We have given some information and comments and opinions about these particular sites. This is obviously the one that's come forward, which is an East Devon garage site.

01:59:29They are in need of another use. They are derelict, almost derelict. They are falling apart, and they will probably more hassle in their current capacity than the potential that they have for this site. Again, it's well-located, it's a brownfield site, and so it's right for developers in our hands to do something. So I hope that we can make good use of this. I know that we've been looking at modular homes potentially for these kind of sites as well, so that might be an option too.

01:59:59Councillor Jackson, anything to add? No? OK, thank you. Again, I find myself in complete agreement, and I suspect this is one of those sites where we'll be looking at that number of houses to see if we can squeeze a few more on there potentially but I'm happy to propose from the chair that this goes forwards as an allocation does anybody else wish to speak on this one Councillor Hayward this is one of ten sites and if you visit them and there is a weed six foot tall in front of the garage door they're not being used they are they're being used for storage predominantly um and in this day and age we can't afford to have land being used for storage there's storage facilities for that sort of thing we need houses and we know that we can build modular things we just need the will the land the cash um and the green light and then we'll proceed so I'm delighted you'll put this one forward thank you Councillor Hayward um I think mr hunter might just have jinxed the rest of today

02:01:00But we will see so the proposal has been made then and can I ask all those in favour please this is of allocating the site just for absolute clarity that's unanimous ok next up then Axminster 22 one of the bigger ones councillors Jackson and Smith many thanks there is currently a planning application live on this particular site however the numbers proposed on there I believe are higher than would have been originally considered this is back when the master plan site was being considered but the cost of the relief road had climbed and they were looking for ways to pay for this so I don't know that the density here is appropriate equally the layout of the site as proposed um I believe um isn't quite right um I think it would have a an adverse impact on those um residents uh immediately adjacent and it backs right up onto the site um and also uh given the numbers proposed here I'd really like to understand how the layout of that site would end up coming forward because I think a fair chunk of this is on the slope um so with all those

02:02:31Elements uh considered I'm I can't find that I support this at this point in time equally um part of the uh relief road scheme meant that um access to uh 80 which you're considering shortly after this would have been via this site um and effectively would have meant that um the residents on sector lane to the east um would have been essentially cut off by road um and I can't support that it would have meant that they would have had to take road journeys all the way out up to Raymond's Hill and back down the A35 in order to get back into town which frankly seems ludicrous I don't think we should subject our existing residents to that and I don't think it supports our carbon approach either so mindful of that I think we need to be really considerate of that one thank you Councillor Smith nothing to add okay thank you uh we come into committee then members I've done it for you the last couple of times somebody else has to speak

02:03:42Councillor Howe and then Councillor Blakey exactly I'll propose that as promises to go forward okay uh do we have a seconder for that Councillor Blakey do you wish to speak Yeah, I was just going to add that the fact that we have a live planning application for the A number, which is considerably greater than the standard sort of spatial calculations, neither here nor there. We're just allocating, aren't we? So the planning application I think is a bit of a red herring, is it not?

02:04:17I think it would be worth us looking at the numbers again as part of our wash-up exercise we said about numbers here the numbers are nearly half what the application shows now except there are still some outstanding issues with the application but it may well demonstrate that we can get more than 55 from that so we'll look at that possibly worth highlighting as well that just because we accept the principle of development here at SPC doesn't mean that planning application is going to be plain sailing um far from it if what I've just heard uh is uh is accurate um do any other members wish to speak okay in which case we have a proposal from Councillor Howe seconded by Councillor Blakey to allocate axe me 22 all those in favor six I count six those against and those abstaining five that adds up doesn't it eleven okay which brings us then to the much delayed from the start of the session G H E D 80 and I'm gonna have to go several times back in my paperwork

02:05:47We have our councillors jackson and smith apologies damien I don't think it's going to be straightforward with this one um I have some serious concerns this bit of land has been contentious and uh has been put forward uh for many years now as part of a previous scheme referenced quite a few times with the relief road that is no longer alive and running uh and And there are some serious topography issues that we have with this site, as well as, as you'll see in some of the mappings, some tricky flooding issues to overcome.

02:06:40We're also not convinced about, with all of those issues, that the density as well would be correct when you took all those factors into consideration. Yeah, those are the main pressing things. I won't take any more of your time. It's been a long day already.

02:06:58Thank you, Councillor Smith. Councillor Jackson. Thank you. Councillor Hayward referenced earlier that we'd had a gun put to our head some years ago and we, I think, quote, had only just recovered. I don't think we have recovered on this one, actually, because this is a scheme that is not viable when it was delivering a road. Many people bought into it, not many, some people bought into it, on the basis that it was delivering a relief road they were prepared to accept that level of growth if it provided that sort of mitigation and this is just part of that site but without that how can we even be considering that and by my count we must be rapidly approaching the numbers that that original scheme with the relief road would have delivered in the sites that you've already agreed to so far and I would like the committee to maintain mindfulness of that one when they consider this one because there are huge chunks of this site that can't reasonably be developed it's on a very steep slope into a valley and other developments adjacent to that the cherry tree

02:08:22Catnip and flax meadow have essentially in many people's view had a detrimental impact the amount of runoff that has then gone on to see flooding in the likes of will haze adjacent to the river acts which is where it all drains through to um if the committee decided that this was appropriate um I think you really need to look at how much of that is actually developable and if the SANG sites that are essentially being suggested here are to come forward um I would really really urge this committee to make sure they're given their own separate designation so that they are protected in the long term thank you thank you Councillor Jackson uh we come first then in committee to Councillor Hayward thank you chair um well I mean what can I add after council jackson's um statement I mean on the column a of why you shouldn't build on this there's so much I mean essentially you know if it floods it exacerbates flood problems It is, you know, we don't have the protection of AOMB, natural landscapes.

02:09:32Coming from Slough, this is a national landscape. It's glorious there. You look at it across the valley, it's just utterly beautiful. Why would you want to build on it? The transport access is terrible. You know, you're going to have to punch through from Sector Lane. You can't get access from Flax Meadow. You can't get access down Evil Lane, which, of course, I should add, I think you can see on there, was called Evil Lane.

02:09:57Not, you know, for a very good reason. The topography is challenging. The eco-habitat there is incredible. The whole of this site, at the point where we were considering the master plan, a local group gathered together evidence to say this was previously a hunting ground for royalty in times gone by when the royal family could just ride across the land whenever they felt like it, killing animals. um you know so there is huge amounts of heritage uh I appreciate the proposals for building are below the um the streamline here if you look at page 128 of your report so that's where you're going to essentially concentrate your your development but that will exacerbate flooding for anyone who lives in cricketers in will hayes park um this fills them with dread because already they have flood problems. We had a flood incident a while back. The culvert under the railway has been improved and still the Stoney Lane roundabout flooded at a rate of knots that we'd never seen before because of water building back through the mill brook, this very stream you can see here.

02:11:08So on those grounds alone, and aside from the fact that it's common knowledge you shouldn't build to the east of the town, I mentioned that earlier, I'm going to propose that we move on from this in its entirety. Only adding, and again, you've got your running total, that we've now added 821 to our housing numbers. I come back to the point, I think at this point, Axminster's done its fair share. Today, we've done our fair share. Even though there's no quotas per se, Axminster's playing its part, and I don't think you need to pillage and destroy the glorious fields to the east of the town anymore. Thank you.

02:11:47Thank you, Councillor Hayward. I think we have three separate numbers between yourself, me, and Mr. Freeman for how many we've already allocated, but it's certainly of the order of 700 or 800, depending whose figures you use. Okay, other members of committee. Councillor Davey. Yes, I'm going to second that. I feel as though we've more than pummelled Exminster today and really probably given it easily as much as its infrastructure can cope with them, quite likely, quite a lot more.

02:12:27I know only the southern part of the site is actually suggested for development and that a lot of it would remain open, but we've just allowed Axmead 22. two, this is adjacent to it, but I feel really perhaps enough is enough and that this is one to move on from and maybe come back to at a later stage when we see how things are going. Well, the wounds aren't going to heal, I gather, having had guns held to heads, but we might be feeling a little less sensitive by then.

02:13:11I think Councillor Hayward gave you a black look when you said maybe this is one to come back to but there we go thank you Councillor Davey do any other members wish to speak on this site Councillor Jess Bailey I support and Councillor Hayward and Councillor Davey I think I think you do have even though there's no targets for different settlements I think you have you do have to look at things in the round um and I think it's just too much um and I just don't think it's fair so I will support Councillor Um heywood and baby to move on if that's the right expression mr Freeman thank you chair um I just wanted to be clear while we're moving on from this site because obviously it is allocated for the majority of it is allocated in the current adopted Local Plan so just so I'm clear from what I'm hearing the concern is that this site has quite significant landscape impacts and that members feel that it was allocated previously to secure the relief

02:14:37Road as a necessity to create a continuous link road through that area and in the absence of the relief road members feel in isolation it's unacceptable in landscape terms primarily so it was accepted at the time because of that balance of the infrastructure that was going to be provided I appreciate through the planning system there would be conditions there be section 106 etc but I don't think they're ever going to be commensurate with what you're posing here especially as you've just agreed 22 admittedly density to be agreed um so yeah my person you you are exactly right you're summing up mr Freeman okay thank you I just want to be clear because we'll have to obviously there's potential for challenge there through the examination of the plan we're basically taking out a site that we previously said was acceptable so I just wanted Okay, thank you, Mr. Freeman.

02:15:44I've got to say, on the whole, I agree. I have persistent nightmares about us reaching our numbers, but I really didn't like this one for all the reasons that have been said. There's another one that was going to be coming up for recommendation on Monday, which I've affectionately titled The Monstrosity, and this one, for me, I disliked almost as much. So, I have to say I'll be supporting the recommendation as well.

02:16:13Sorry, Ed. Does anybody else wish to speak? Okay. In which case, the proposal from Councillor Hayward, seconded by Councillor Davey, thank you, is that we move on from GHED 80. All those in favour, please. That's almost you. No, that is unanimous. okay we come then to axme 23 and I have councillors jackson and smith we're back in the town center

02:17:06Which is which is great um I have no uh real issue with there being residential on this site but it would be a crying shame if it was designated as residential solely This is quite possibly the only opportunity for town centre development that would deliver things like public realm, employment, possibly an element of residential as well. I don't think this committee should be considering it as such.

02:17:38It needs to be a mixed use site particularly with the level of growth that you're proposing for the town and any future development because quite frankly this is the only possible site left to deliver such sort of amenity so please please do not consider it as simply as residential thank you Councillor Smith nothing to add okay I saw councillors ledger and jung at the same time so Councillor Jung respect the elderly yeah yeah yeah in view of the comments from board members limiting it to just development for dwellings would be a shame we we should if possible suggesting for allocate for allocation for development full stop if that's possible sorry council you and I think we both missed the question because I was okay can we allocate it for development full stop rather than say no for allocation of dwellings I believe we can then that except hopefully something much more substantial than just dwellings I think I'll be right in saying the report is clear that residential development would only be acceptable in a

02:19:14Mixed-use scheme at mr. Freeman that's right I mean the the report gives a yield of any 10 dwellings because I think the intention is for mixed-use development and then in terms of reasons for allocator so residential is accepted in principle as part of a mixed-use redevelopment scheme so I would support the recommendation then I make that as a recommendation just just to be clear are we able to write the policy such that it is required to be a mixed-use redevelopment is that within our gift yes okay so we have a proposal then in line with officers recommendation for mixed-use scheme do we have a seconder Councillor Blakey thank you Councillor Blakey Councillor Lecture the report says at the start under on the title page proposed use housing and that's I think where the confusion is arising is it needs to be more explicit that it is wanting to be a mixed-use development I know there's been a lot of work going into this with uh Devon County Council last year with the regeneration boards that were set up

02:20:38The leveling up bids that have gone out um that were unsuccessful but it would be a real crying shame if this was perceived to be just a housing site and so I think we just need a bit more clarification on on that part but I'm I'm happy to go with the recommendation chair thank you Councillor Ledger anybody else wish to speak on this site no okay then the proposal from Councillor Jung seconded by Councillor Blakey is for axmi 23 to go forward for a mixed use allocation for those members in favor that's unanimous which brings us then to the last Axminster site axmead 24 and we have [member of the public] jillings caught you out there simon didn't I thank you chair thank you um the site before you is part of an existing allocation under strategy 20 which you know as the report notes there is a current undetermined application on the site which has been slightly delayed due to nutrient mitigation etc. The application has no technical objection, Chair, and the case officer has confirmed that there is a draft report recommending the application

02:22:04For approval earlier this year. It therefore makes sense to retain the allocation which can help meet, albeit in a small way, East Devon's housing requirement over the next planned period. Axminster is, in principle, the appropriate location for housing growth in the planned period, so A, an appropriate location in the planned period, and this site is well located in relation to the town and its services.

02:22:34Thank you. Councillors Smith and Jackson. Not that I'm at risk of using this three minutes. I did reset it. Yes, I'm led to believe that there has been a planning application declined on this site as well, so it obviously presents challenges. I think the one thing that I would like to flag up is access. We have got two potential accesses into this. You've got, again, the Beaver Lane that is at the top of the north side, which is suggested which is highly unsuitable for any form of vehicle really to continue to go up and down.

02:23:27And the other option, I believe, is going through the lower end of a housing estate that I live in, the top end of, which was originally supposed to be sectioned as two different housing estates itself, but actually wasn't given highways access to do that. It's a maze. It operates like a maze. So that is not a sustainable option either. So that's the real pressing thing about this site.

02:23:53Thank you, Councillor Smith. Councillor Jackson? yeah I seem to recall there there was a planning application that was um uh turned down on this site um appreciate that um the developer or owner of the land may be bringing forward new ones but that's sort of beside the point I think some of the key takeaways here are access in respect to um uh both beaver lane and three acre close um and whilst uh simon's mentioned uh beaver lane if we talk about three acre close it's an incredibly small narrow cul-de-SAC which is pretty much choked up with um cars all the way up it so it's it's tight it's equally on a pretty steep slope so whilst a planning application will work out you know how those things are configured um I don't think it's appropriate for the sort of numbers that we're talking about here thank you thank you Councillor Jackson uh with that then we are into committee members okay given the pregnant pause then uh mr Freeman did you say you wanted to clarify some things

02:25:09Uh thank you joe I just wanted to clarify that um as far as I can see there's not been an application refused at any point on the site I think it's just that the application that's in has been in since 2021 and not been determined largely because of negotiations around some of these issues but principally I think because of the nutrient neutrality issues and the need for mitigation where we have held a small number of applications in the system while those issues are resolved so just to clarify if there's ever been a refusal it's just it's a long-standing applications in the system Okay, thank you [member of the public] then, Councillor Hayward Thank you Chair On this, and not for the reasons I've stated previously, but simply because you just have to look at a map the access into this site as has been pointed out is either through a cul-de-SAC having weaved through another housing estate which is renowned for its traffic problems and access to emergency vehicles and a whole raft of other things all

02:26:16Along a tiny single track farm road again accessed by a very narrow residential road so aside from the build traffic which would cause absolute chaos nearby having an additional 29 dwellings with those vehicles with the service access with deliveries um it's just an inappropriate location um and I appreciate that might be hard for some to hear some sites are just not appropriate we've been considering them for the last month some sites just don't work for me this site doesn't work leave it as a green field it serves an agricultural purpose it's an eco corridor and it just forms part of those green lungs of Axminster. Thank you.

02:27:07Thank you Councillor Hayward. In the absence of any other comments, Councillor Hayward was that a proposal to move on? Okay, does anybody wish to second that? I saw Councillor Brian Bailey's hand first. Sorry Councillor Ledger, I promise it's nothing personal. Councillor Bailey, did you wish to speak? Okay, does anybody else on committee wish to speak on this one no okay uh in which case the proposal is to move on by Councillor Hayward seconded by Councillor Brian bailey uh all those members in favor please that was eight that I saw can we can we just have hands again to make sure please one two three four five six seven eight thank you those against and those abstaining that's three so that makes 11 so that's fine. Okay, that brings us to the end of Axminster then. Do members want a short break before we dive into Kilmington or should we plow on? Plow on. Okay, let's get through Kilmington then.

02:28:37Okay, members, so I've just checked with Mr. Hunter. There are a number, quite a large number actually of sites in Kilmington that have no registered speakers and for which the proposal from officers is not to allocate so we are going to take some of these in one recommendation and then just plow through in a vote so first off does anybody wish to speak against the officer recommendation on sites kilm 01 02 or 03 no in which case I will propose from the chair that we move on from all three of those sites so first off the vote then on kilm 01 all those members in favor of moving on please that's unanimous kilm 02 the proposal from the chair is to move on all those in favor that's unanimous and kilm 03 the proposal is to move on all those in favour please. That is unanimous. That brings us then to Kilm 05 and we have [member of the public] registered to speak. Thank you chair members. Slightly delicate. I do feel that the officer's report has missed out a number of key material facts which I really want to just run through

02:30:11With you quickly now. First of all members a planning permission was granted on the site in 2007 for storage use in a large storage building this permission was lawfully implemented meaning it remains live in perpetuity and you blink if you [member of the public] but in Devon Highways report it says that planning permission was granted in 2015 for six new homes this was a rural exception site again this permission has been implemented it remains live in perpetuity a spade could go into the ground tomorrow and start delivering the problem members is that this permission is not viable two market homes and four affordable homes whereas an allocation would be four market and two affordable I think under the current policy definition now there are a number of areas where I think there's a bit of disconnect between the assessment, the technical assessment, and the conclusion.

02:31:19Here's one, landscape. Officers say the site has low to medium visibility. And this chimes with a historic environment comment about how the trees and hedgerows obscure views of the site. So the conclusion that developing the site for six homes would have a significant landscape impact, I mean, it just doesn't add up, members. Another key fact is that officers have accepted elsewhere, and this was part of an appeal on a completely different matter, that the site is brownfield land.

02:31:54Now, members, you know brownfield land is where national and local policy and your emerging local policies prioritise and direct housing development. Okay, the site got a bit overgrown in the summer, but its development could hardly be described as harming ecology and it's worth remembering, as I say, that there is a planning permission to develop the site already. It doesn't need any more approvals. Finally, and this is with regard to phosphates, because of this planning permission, this site is deliverable straight away.

02:32:32It doesn't need any further phosphate approvals or permissions. So members, we've got a bit of a difficult one here. For me, personally, you'll decide, obviously. But I think there's really good justification in allocating this site for six homes. It's a sustainable location. Kilmington is suitable for small-scale development, and we ask that it's allocated. If not, brought back.

02:32:59Thank you, members. Thank you, Mr. Coles. And I have a representative of Kilmington Parish Council, Councillor Kieran. I'm sorry if I mispronounced this I'm reading that one Ah, hello Councillor Verberth Hello So Kilmington Parish Council agree with officers' assessment and wish to make the following comments regarding the Pitt Orchard Site Assessment Our neighbourhood plan was made in October 2022 Residents specifically called for careful location of any new development so as not to increase the traffic through the narrow lanes of the densely populated centre of the village.

02:33:45These narrow lanes have limited passing places, no pedestrian pavements and no street lighting. The 05 Pitt Orchard site is located on a very narrow single lane road to the south of the build-up area boundary. This means that all Pit Orchard residents, vehicles and service and delivery vehicles will have to travel north through the central residential area to reach the A35 and village amenities. An increase in traffic creates safety concerns and discourages residents from walking and cycling.

02:34:22Pit Orchard is in the national landscape outside the built-up area boundary. It is also in a sensitive landscape area. The site is next to the Grade 2 listed Cider Lodge and runs alongside Silver Street, which is listed in the Devon Design Statement as a visual focal point. An EDDC review of the village conservation areas concluded that this part of the village retained sufficient residual character for consideration to be given to designation of a small conservation area.

02:34:58The neighbourhood plan includes a community action project to explore this further. When the existing exceptional planning approval was granted as a mixed affordable housing and open market development, Kilmington Parish Council objected to the development of this site. The view of the Parish Council reflecting the opinion of our residents has not changed. Kilmington Parish Council has already proposed housing development sites in locations which are acceptable to residents and provide significant growth in housing numbers.

02:35:40Working closely with EDDC, their neighbourhood plan allocates around 34 dwellings, 10 self-build and 24 on specific sites, and the Local Plan consultations to date allocate another 42 dwellings, a total of around 76 in all.

02:36:01We trust the committee will take into account the views of Kilmington residents and do not allocate 0-5 as an additional site. Okay, thank you, Wendy. We have no further members of the public registered to speak. I'm going to exercise Chair's prerogative to get on my soapbox for a minute. And I think this sort of proposal is exactly why members of the public lose faith and get cynical about the planning system.

02:36:34Because we grant permissions for affordable home and then here we are eight years later being asked to reallocate it for market housing because in inverted commas it's not viable um I'm not going to express an opinion on that I will point out that where a site has come forward as a rural exception site that balance is fundamentally different to when it comes forward as market housing because by its nature it's a rural exception site I will finish by saying I completely agree with officers recommendation in this instance and I'm going to move from the chair that we move on from this site do any other members wish to speak okay in which case we'll go to a vote the proposal is to move on all those in favor please that's unanimous okay we then come to sites six and seven which are also not recommended for allocation and have no registered speakers do any members wish to speak on either of these sites no in which case I'll move from the chair that we move on from both oh six and oh seven those members in favor of moving on from oh six

02:37:49Please that's unanimous and those members in favor of moving on from 07 please that is unanimous thank you members that brings us then to site kilm 09 which is partially allocated in the Kilmington neighbourhood plan that's 09A and officers are recommending an allocation at 09B and we have [member of the public] thank you chair needless to say I support the recommendations of your officers I've got some nonsense written down here but really I'd rather ask a question of your of Matt and Ed sorry Mr Freeman and [member of the public] about ensuring consistency between the neighbourhood plan than a Local Plan when it comes to the to the proposals map in terms of existing neighbourhood plan allocations so I just want to ensure that that happens by support o9b in terms of your officers recommendations thank you thank you [member of the public] sure officers can have a look at consistency of the mapping and things we have tried to pick that up in this process as I'm sure everyone will appreciate um we've processed about 2 000 pages something like that of agendas in the

02:39:18Last three or four weeks um so some things have been missed members does anybody wish to speak on this Councillor Ledger uh I have to propose acceptance chef that just clarifies that acceptance of 09b moving on from 09a okay uh I will second that um do any other members wish to speak Councillor Hayward I'll be very brief Chair just for again purposes of clarity a point's been made referencing neighbourhood plans with the Local Plan process could Mr Freeman just within a couple of paragraphs I appreciate I'm far more verbose than he is just outline what happens to existing neighbourhood plans if and when when and if our new Local Plan is made what happened because obviously there are neighbourhood plans that were made that generally had to record to our old Local Plan. We have a new Local Plan some of them won't pass muster. So can you just encapsulate for the purpose and benefit of everyone here? I think I'll be right in saying where there's conflict the newer plan has precedence. Is that right Mr Freeman?

02:40:39Yes. So basically the neighbourhood plans remain in place and are material consideration. the issue only really arises where there's conflict between the two of which the most up-to-date plan would carry the greatest weight so obviously over time the neighbourhood plans will get more and more out of date and they should really be refreshed and updated and redone to reflect the new Local Plan but in the meantime we would have that situation where we continue to give weight to it and issues potentially only arise where there's conflict which I mean there will be in a number of cases I'm sure but that doesn't mean we can't still give significant weight to the remaining elements of the neighbourhood plan where there aren't conflicts Thank you [member of the public] we will go to Councillor Howe Yeah I mean I had to go back and re-read this because I do wonder and again when you look at these three sites is it yeah listed here I should we be joining them should we be trying to push through 9 whatever it is I can't even see it now it's gone 9a as

02:41:53Part of 9b and 10 reading the report 9a is partly allocated in the neighborhood plan which kind of throws me a bit if it's already partly allocated through the neighbourhood plan, why are we excluding it? Surely it would be more sense road-wise and everything else to link them together again as a small master plan for that area and get a more sensible solution for road access and everything else.

02:42:20I don't know. I mean, Kilwington's a lovely little village and everything else and I don't want to do anything harm, but at the same time I am casting doubt about myself and my own sanity if you get my meaning. Mr Freeman, can you save Councillor Howe's sanity? at this point on friday afternoon I'm not sure I can um I I don't profess to be an expert on where we are with kilmington's neighborhood plan and the relationship between the two um it's perhaps something we need to take away um and and look at um how we join that up I don't know I think um I don't know if matt or sam I can can add anything to that but um I think it's probably something we need to take away and look at how we join this all up but um if we can sort of agree the principles of the allocations and perhaps take that away yeah I was going to suggest that we take it to a vote and then officers can take it away and if necessary we can bring it back um to the mid-october meeting um but I think

02:43:23Point heard um in which case then for the second time of trying we have a proposal from I can't Remember, Councillor Ledger seconded by, oh, me, did I second it? Oh, very good. That O9A is moved on from, O9B goes forward as an allocation. So we'll start with O9A. The proposal is to move on all those members in favor. That's 10. And those abstaining, that's one. There we go.

02:43:58And then the proposal is to allocate O9B, all those in favor. that's unanimous okay that brings us then to uh site kiln 10 uh right next door okay we have no members of the public registered to speak excuse me do any members of committee wish to speak note in which case I'll propose from the chair that we allocate this site in the Reg 19 draft all those in favor that's unanimous okay but just make a point about so these three sites very great all interlink to each other and we should see if there's a benefit of working those three sites into one that that was certainly the discussion of the working group liaising with the parish council and certainly I think officers have that in the back of their minds to take forwards okay the last three sites then again all not proposed for allocation and I did have a [member of the public] down to speak I'm do I understand he's yeah he's not coming I'm just making sure we don't have a [member of the public] in the gallery no okay in which case then does anybody wish to speak on these

02:45:31Three rejected sites Councillor Ledger I think it relates uh to the same point in 9a with 11 the reason for not allocating is the referendum version of the neighbourhood plan is allocated 10 dwellings so the yield is 10 dwellings so we're rejecting it but it's already accepted in the neighborhood plan mr Freeman I assume we're not we're seeking to duplicate at this point what's in the kilmonton neighborhood plan given its advanced stage of production it doesn't seem a need to do that but it does come back to cancer house point in terms of 9a and 9b and 10 in terms of how we join that up so we'll take that away and look at that um I don't really see a need to repeat what's in the neighborhood plan if it's reached as far as a referendum so could I suggest instead of moving on that we just support the neighborhood plan I mean can we is it right that we do that now does that risk prejudicing spc when it comes to consider the

02:46:51Neighbourhood plan down the line SPC or cabinet or whoever it is well I'm starting to remember that for the plan to reach referendum version we must have issued comments on the plan by a cabinet already before it got to referendum version so I'm assuming we have already supported this okay does it make a huge difference if we just move on no I'm gonna propose from the chair that we move on from sites kilm 11 kilm 12 and kilm 13 um you don't need to brian but thank you um do any members wish to speak no okay in which case the proposal is to move on from kilm 11 all those in favor please that's unanimous move on from kilm 12 all those in favor please that's unanimous and to move on from kiln 13 all those in favor please that's unanimous it's just it's more for the benefit of damien and the tape than anything um I think I'm going to suggest we take a short five minute break just to stretch legs for a moment and then come back

02:48:04And tackle uh musbury porkchurch and charred stock so we'll reconvene um by quarter past okay right the last stretch then members done by six o'clock shall we okay um we are on to

02:56:12Musbury next I believe [member of the public] by way of very brief introduction musbury it's on the plan in front of you you'll see there is one site oh no no it's me okay we'll see you in a minute

02:56:44So on the plan you'll see for musbury just one site is recommended for allocation o1a okay and with that o1a we come to Councillor Andrew molding from musbury parish council how nice it is to be in this council chamber again on the other side of the fence yes musbury on my village where I live and having given up being a Councillor Here for 36 years Muggins Moulding was co-opted as a parish Councillor For Musbury.

02:57:23So there you go. And I agree with all the recommendations for Musbury totally. I agree with 01A being acceptable but 01B not being acceptable. The only thing and the reference that I would like to see removed is that of gypsies and travellers allocation on that site. As far as I am aware, Devon County Council have got a site, they're allocating a site, and as you might well imagine, the residents of Musbury are very much concerned that the site in question at Baxter's Farm, right in the heart of the village, it has still got an allocation or a suggested allocation for gypsy and traveller pitches.

02:58:18It's not an appropriate site. It's been debated on numerous occasions through the village, together with planning officers. And I would like to see O1A being allocated for approval, but with the omission of reference to gypsies and travellers.

02:58:38Thank you, Councillor Moulding. Mr Freeman, is there a specific reason that the potential for the G&T allocation is present on this site? If I recall, Chair, I think it was simply that in developing the development brief for the site in partnership with Devon County Council and the Parish Council, it was just seen as a good location and opportunity for provision. It's probably something that needs to be considered in the wider context of Gypsy and Traveller provision.

02:59:12Through the plan which we haven't really touched on recently at least my current thinking is we probably don't need to rely on this and I know Devon County Council are looking at alternative provision in relation to this so it's probably not an issue but we probably bring need to bring you a report on gypsy and traveller provision more generally in terms of the plan I'm also mindful there's a site on Monday's agenda I think which is for gypsy and traveller provision so I don't think it necessarily it's an interesting one actually because it's in the reasons but it's not actually in the recommendation is it it simply talks about the residential and the 15 units in the employment space I would suggest for the moment that members would be safe in agreeing the recommendation which is for the 15 residential units and the employment and not mention the gypsum traveler provision um and work on that assumption and we can bring a further reports in regards to gypsum traveler provision more generally but I don't think it's a problem

03:00:34Okay, thank you, Mr. Freeman. In that case, I will propose officers' recommendation as written for 15 dwellings and 0.06 hectares of employment land. Do any members wish to speak? No? Okay. In which case, you've just heard the proposal from the Chair. All those in favour, please.

03:00:58That's unanimous okay O1B then which we have to consider separately as well does anybody wish to speak on this one Councillor Moulding do you have anything to add on any of these or no okay in which case I'll propose again from the chair that we move on from O1B all those members in favour please okay thank you very much Councillor Moulding, did you have anything to add on any of these other sites?

03:01:34Okay, thank you very much. Members, does anybody wish to speak on any of them? Yes, we might want to check with Councillor Jess Bailey. Yes, that's right.

03:01:44Thank you, Sam. Welcome back, Jess. Would you like to say anything about sites 03, 04 or 05? No, thank you. In which case, I'll move from the chair that we move on from all three of those sites. Does anybody wish to speak? No? Okay. Then the proposal is to move on from Musbury 03. All those in favor, please. That's unanimous. Musbury 04, the proposal is to move on.

03:02:21That's unanimous. And 05, same again. That is unanimous. Okay. That brings us to the end of Musbury. then uh and 7d then is hawk church uh mr Freeman [member of the public] do you have an introduction for us just to say by way of hawk church you'll see um one site is proposed for allocation in hawk church hawk 01 it is the site that contains the village shop and I think one of the things we would stress in policy development terms is we would want to see some sort of policy in place to seek to retain that shop if at all possible I think it's also worth flagging up that this was one of those settlements that it was suggested maybe through the assessment of settlements might fall outside of the hierarchy although looking at this we're content from an office perspective that it has the facilities to warrant inclusion. Okay thank you [member of the public] this is one element of the agenda that was, or the covering report specifically, was revised during the week because, well, I and others, most notably Chair of Hortchurch Parish Council, Councillor [member of the public], had some concerns about the classification of Hortchurch and whether it genuinely accords with our strategy for sustainable development.

03:03:56So I'm going to come to Mr Freeman just before we come to Councillor Nolan, just to go over how officers see it.

03:04:06Thank you. Yes, thank you, Chair. So we did try and update and bolster this part of the report that's at paragraph 3.15 in the covering report, noting the concerns being raised by the community in terms of its assessment as a Tier 4 settlement in the role and function of settlement study. so I think there were two issues that were highlighted particularly one was um that the the only shop is a community shop which is temporarily cited I believe on the site proposed for allocation as [member of the public] has mentioned we tried to make it clear that um we're not intended well our intention certainly would not be that that site is lost for the community shop clearly that's a valuable community facility that should be retained with any proposals for the redevelopment of that site. The other thing I think that was highlighted as an issue is the bus service which only runs once a week. Obviously that was noted in the role and functions of settlement study. There is a specific, members may recall the assessment was whether or not it had a

03:05:09Less than hourly bus service which obviously got a tick in the box for having a less than hourly bus service. There was also an asterisk and footnote that highlighted that it was only a once-a-week service, which is obviously not a very good level of service for a village such as Holt Church, and it's unfortunate that they don't have better public transport links to the wider area. However, noting that, the role and function of the settlement survey did highlight it as a Tier 4 settlement, and that was what was agreed by the committee at the time, and nothing has actually changed with regard to that to justify revisiting that to my mind.

03:05:52The other thing to say I think is to bear in mind that I think sometimes when reading the role and function of settlement study people get quite caught up on the number of services and facilities listed against particular settlements when really we're just using that as a measure to determine whether or not that particular settlement carries a function that's meeting the everyday needs of residents of that community in terms of their basic everyday needs and and those of a slightly wider area and and I think it's clear from our assessment that hawk church still fulfills that role and therefore I wouldn't see a need to revisit the role and function of settlement study with regard to hawk church thank you chair okay thank you mr Freeman and I will reserve comment to that point then Councillor [member of the public] thank you this is the fifth time that we have raised the issue of the tier four classification with officers it's quite clear in the in the in the document but what the officers have just said but it actually says following settlements have at

03:07:06Least seven local facilities and therefore play a local role for both settlement and immediate surrounding area in meeting the basic needs for residents on a day-to-day basis. It's got a footnote that actually doesn't make sense. This is how good it is. I'll read it to you. It says settlements that have six local facilities plus an hourly bus service in brackets strategic facility are also included as it seems illogical to exclude settlements that are missing a less than hourly service but do have an hourly service so that was missed because that is back to front but we are the only village that is classified based on having six local facilities and services because of this fact that we have a bus at 10 o'clock on a Thursday morning to take people to accidents to market, and if you miss the return, you're stuck.

03:08:09That doesn't constitute a bus service by any structure of the imagination to anybody I have talked to, apart from perhaps the officers concerned. We did a survey based on the Local Plan consultation. We had a 50% response rate, which is very good, and the vast majority of residents do not support the scale of development within Hawke Church. It represents by officers' calculations 32% increase. That is the biggest of all villages.

03:08:52The truth of the matter is if you look over a period of time and you include, we think that that figure includes the exception site, which is outside the settlement boundary in calculating it. If you take all the new housing, including this proposal, and compare it with the village before, it represents a 70% increase in housing. Port Church is a small rural village. It has very narrow lanes, and as with everywhere else, massive infrastructure problems that are simply not coping.

03:09:32I'm trying to find, I'm sorry. It's been a long time this afternoon. In our survey, we ask people, you know, about the use of their cars. And 65% of households use their cars daily. And the average ownership is 1.74 cars per household. There is no way that this fits with your strategic plan to put housing where there is transport. This will increase the road use. It will increase delivery vans, which we've seen a huge amount more of since the additional housing.

03:10:11It will have serious impacts on our infrastructure. Brimley Road is one of three main access roads into the village. That road has been closed at least 12 times this year due to infrastructure problems. and southwest water told residents about problems with the drainage that they're aware of but they're just waiting to see what happens it is an absolute disaster area this development would directly impact the infrastructure down that arterial road so I don't know where to go with this because I just think it's not correct I think it's as a matter of principle incorrect and I certainly don't think it's a sustainable growth if we did a neighborhood plan which if this gets allocated I don't think we will because there's almost no point if we did a neighborhood plan there are multiple other sites where people would prefer to see small clusters of development in in hall church in what's termed by others as organic growth that makes sense this would be a housing estate in a rural village it's not right just not right at all thank you thank you Councillor Nolan

03:11:36Uh we then I believe have a statement from Councillor Mackinder thank you uh he'd like to he wants me to read out the following I am unable to support the recommendation to approve sites within Hawker Church as the interpretation of the decision criteria related to settlement tier determination tier from which the allocations flow is flawed. I agree with the general approach to score settlements on a number of criteria and use number of criteria met to determine tier which is then used to determine whether and how much development to allow. I'm hoping this makes sense, sorry. Existence of otherwise, let me start again, sorry, I'm tired. Existence or otherwise of public transport is a reasonable criterion. However, there is no definition as to what constitutes public transport. Hawk Church having a once daily service will do nothing to encourage public transport use and reduce traffic on local roads sorry to interrupt wendy just worth mentioning uh council mckinder sent an errata through to correct that to once weekly not once daily oh okay sorry um I therefore suggest hawk church should not score on public

03:13:03Transport criterion similarly presence of village shop is an important criterion however in the case of Hawke Church this is more nuanced since whilst the shop is an excellent community service it is a volunteer run and located in the Hawke 01 site. Nothing in the report states the shop location will remain available at any affordable rate to the community shop with the potential result that the shop would be forced to close and other locations within the village look unlikely thus development of this site could remove one of the criteria which enabled the village to be considered as viable for development during the Local Plan member working party Axminster yati and new bridges sites in july questioned questions were raised about how the tier allocation for hawk choke was determined and indeed these comments have been made by the community during prior consultations and reiterated during the consultation I would have expected these comments would have been noted in the report prepared for this committee with either a modification to tier allocation methodology and slash or tier classification for hawk church and thus tier and thus and thus site

03:14:28Recommendations or an explanation on how the tier criteria were to be interpreted in brackets for For example, to define what is considered to be public transport service, and therefore allowing the local community to understand the logic behind the proposed site. Hork Church community to conclude there is no point in responding to requests for comments as their comments will simply be ignored. The report has recently been reissued, but I can still find no reference to these comments.

03:15:03Removing public transport and presence of shock results in Hawkechurch no longer qualify as a Tier 4 settlement and presumably the justification for these recommendations will then fail. Successful local community planning depends on transparency in decision making. This report needs to allow the local community to understand how and why recommendations are determined and to contribute to shaping these recommendations. I don't feel this report does that. I therefore do not support the recommendation for Hawke Church.

03:15:44Thank you, Wendy, for that. I'm again going to exercise Chair's prerogative to go first. Sorry, members. I have a lot of sympathy with the points that have been raised by Councillors Mackinder and Nolan. I think there's some contradiction between the proposed allocation and the assessment that's in there um my view would be a lot of smaller settlements that are taking some growth through this process um have relatively similar problems with poor quality public transport maybe not to the extent that we see here with a once weekly service um but I I don't think it's something that we haven't seen in other villages um or will see maybe on Monday so I'm going to propose a compromise here I think because I don't hear from councillors Mackinder or Nolan that there's outright opposition to anything in Hortchurch I hope that's a fair characterization so I'm going to propose at this time that we move on from this site but bring it back in mid-october looking at the potential for a much reduced allocation perhaps using only the land that's already been developed and excluding the community shop

03:17:10That's that's my proposal um I'll propose that we move on and bring it back and and have another look I think that's a reasonable compromise um but there we go that's only my view I see lots of hands um and I saw jess bailey first earlier on so we'll go with jess first thank you um yes I also have a lot of sympathy I think it's excessive and disproportionate um I got the figures from one of our officers um recently about how many houses there are in all of our settlements and And according to Libby, there's 288 in Hawke Church.

03:17:47So to have 38 houses where there's really poor public transport does not seem to be consistent with sustainable development. And I would agree with you that 38 is... We need to revisit this one. Thank you. Councillor Jung. Yes, the question of a community shop. It seems to be a temporary building in the farmyard way this development is going to be. How sustainable would that community shop be with this development?

03:18:28Does it need 38 houses for that to be rebuilt within the new scheme of things? would a temporary shop just stay in that position I'm not quite sure so we need to look at how the community shop works with this with this development and what's what sort of development would be able to support a community shop thank you Councillor Jung I have Councillor Hayward thank Councillor Blakey. Thank you Chair. As the former ward member to Yarty I can empathise entirely with what [member of the public] is saying and from what Councillor Mackinder has said. We use Hawk Church as an example in the Axe Valley area of why you need defibrillators because it is so remote simply it takes so long to get there and the roads are so narrow it's just so isolated.

03:19:34You can see on this picture here, you're proposing 38 dwellings. There's not barely 38 dwellings in that entire lower picture there. It's just inappropriate, and I'm grateful for your proposal to move on. I would go further and just say move on entirely, because this village could support some windfall sites. They'll pop up from time to time. Someone who owns a bungalow might pass on the bungalow site, might sustain two or three.

03:20:01It will be organic growth. That's how Hawke Church has grown over centuries. And just plonking 38 houses on here, I think, is inappropriate. The access is entirely inappropriate. If you've been driving through here, that access is treacherous, and it's very difficult to see. And then we come to the issue of what we might call the Hawke Church paradox, which is, if you allow it, the shop closes instantly.

03:20:30It's not a tier 4 settlement because it doesn't have the amenities and certainly a weekly bus service as [member of the public] says it's not a bus service that shouldn't even be included because it's not regular enough all it takes is a driver to be off work because sick or the vehicle breaks down you haven't got a bus service so I'm grateful for you I'm not sure if it's been seconded by oh sorry oh you've moved to the chair in which case wonderful but I wholly support it um and I just don't think it's appropriate for the for hawk church you know if if dare I say from what we've been through this afternoon Axminster's taken one for the team for hawk church they can come to Axminster and spend their money in shop thank you Councillor Blakey yeah thank you jerry you actually proposed exactly word for word what I was going to say which is that the current concrete array and the disused buildings would seem entirely appropriate for redevelopment.

03:21:38They're a bit of an eyesore, let's be honest, and leave that field alone. It's got a natural boundary there already, so I'm fully in support of what you have proposed.

03:21:50Thank you, Councillor Blakey. It was your notebook I was reading earlier, I think. Okay, do any other members wish to speak on this site? No? Okay, in which case the proposal is that we move on and ask officers to take another look and bring back a much reduced proposal in mid-October. The sun has just come below the ceiling and it's now directly in my eyes, so I can't see any of you.

03:22:17However, all those in favour of that proposal, please. I'll take your word for it. OK, unanimous then, which brings us to Hawk O2. Council of Nolan, did you have anything to add? You don't have to. so the majority of residents felt that this was not an appropriate site because it stretches the development out there are mixed views on it because the access to the other site is extremely difficult as well so people were were a little bit split on on that but personally again it's just a it's a huge development and totally inappropriate and can I also say that the facts that you were given by officers aren't correct those are the parish numbers the actual settlement boundary has far fewer houses you've only got a look at the map and it's obvious thank you thank you Councillor Nolan and Wendy did Councillor Mackinder have any further comments on this site no okay I'm happy to propose from the chair that we move on from this site any comments I really couldn't see you if you put your hand up so you'll have to say something

03:23:46No okay all right we're going to a vote then the proposal is to move on from the chair all those in favor that's unanimous okay very good thank you um which brings us to the last settlement in the hierarchy uh Sam is closing the wrong blinds It's a good thing we're nearly done, isn't it? Okay, charred stock. [member of the public], please save me. Charred stock. So you'll see on the plan there is a smallish site, 4A, which is proposed for allocation, and 4B and two other sites are not.

03:24:30Thank you, [member of the public]. Short and sweet. Okay. We have no one registered to speak for sites, char one and char oh no uh char three do we have a statement from Councillor Mackinder a very short one uh he says the char stock reckon recommendation has the support of the local community via the parish council and I'm happy to support the chart chart stock recommendation and specifically the chart 04a site okay thank you wendy um does anybody on committee have anything to say about sites chart 01 or 03 no in which case I'll propose from the chair that we move on from those two Damien just making sure you've got it okay so all those in favor of moving on from chart 01 please that's unanimous and chart 03 again to move on that's unanimous Okay, that brings us then to the last site of the day, [member of the public].

03:25:43Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Committee. I shall be brief. The Regulation 18 version of the plan included a slightly larger allocation for 30. Needless to say, I support your officer's recommendation in terms of 4A. I just have some concerns that the area proposed for 30 houses was 6.4 acres, which was a bit of 4B and 4A. It's now been reduced to 2.5 acres. I was just saying, if you've got aspirations to deliver sufficient housing to meet your overall targets, along with suitable access, which is going to take out that first little bit with no housing, adequate drainage, potentially incorporating nutrient neutrality mitigation measures, land for biodiversity net gain, employment, yada, yada.

03:26:41It is extremely unlikely that the first field will be sufficient. I'd also say that providing a lower density layout appropriate to the edge of village location makes this doubly unlikely. I guess I would say, or you would say, the obvious answer is, well, we'll just do lower numbers for the first field. But I think 30 is an appropriate level for charred stock as it's set out in your officer's report for the village.

03:27:12So, I think I would ask that a bit more of 4B, not the whole lot of 4B at all, but a bit more to achieve what the policy is currently looking to require from the site would be great. because I don't think 4A will achieve 30.

03:27:32Thank you very much. Thank you, [member of the public]. I have Councillor Hayward and then Councillor Jung. Sorry, could somebody turn the public speaking mic off, please?

03:27:44Thank you. Thank you, Chair, very briefly. It's interesting that there's been a softening of position from the parish council because previously, through their neighbourhood plan, they weren't very keen on this at all. I'm grateful of officers and I'm mindful of what the speaker said, but 4B and 1 really just changed the character of the village and that significant development to the north. I think the village can sustain the development of 4A as a natural sort of southern progression.

03:28:20They've now got a very vibrant village shop, a great village hall, community hall, which has had a lot of funding to it to make it commercially viable for the future. it has a great school it has the amenities other than the bus service which of course if you go all the way down the road to the A35A you can pick up the bus there so I'm happy to support the proposal I'm mindful of what's been said it doesn't deliver 30 it may deliver 20 of which I hope a great number of those would be affordable houses because they're really in demand in the child stock area but happy to propose Chair if you're happy we propose that 4A is taken forward as an allocation, but that 4B is declined.

03:29:08Okay, the proposal is to allocate 4A and move on from 4B. Is that a second in Councillor Jung? No, I just need... I do need to ask for a second of first. Sorry, Constitutional.

03:29:21Councillor Collins, you wish to second? Okay, thank you. Councillor Jung? Right. The question is, how many dwellings are there in charge of to work out the sort of proportionality of this new housing? Any chance of having a figure? We'll give Mr Freeman a minute to check that one. Does anybody have anything to add on this site? What I'd say is it's great to see that the Parish Council is supportive of this proposed development and that's the way we would like to go.

03:30:17In the whole parish though rather than the village itself worth highlighting. Okay, I'm going to take us to a vote on this one and bring the day to a close then. So the proposal from Councillor Hayward, seconded by Councillor Bethany Collins, is to allocate site 4A. Those in favour, please? That's unanimous. And then the final proposal is to move on from Site 4B. Those in favour, please.

03:30:56And that's unanimous, which brings us to the end of our Strategic Planning Committee meeting for today. I will see you all at 10 o'clock on Monday morning.